Zug area experience of state/private schools

[rivenoby]

Hi all,

Have just landed a job in Zug, and looking to bring my family over, including our 2 boys aged 5 and 3.

I speak German, but my wife and kids don't, and I was wondering if anyone had any experience of the local state and international schools that they could share?

We'd like to experience as much as possible and engage in the local culture and community, so we're committed to learning the language but my only fear is how well the children would adapt to being immersed in Schwitzerdeutsch from the outset, so any help or guidance would be enormously appreciated!

Thanks!

[msway]

Hi,

We moved when my daughter was just under 3, we were both working and she attended day care in Swiss German. Within 3 months she was talking and understanding some German. The children pick up the language sooo easy.

Our daughter attends ISZL, we always considered we would be here for a limited period and that developing her English was most important. Also, 2 working parents creates problems with the Swiss system where the children come home from lunch.

Our child is very happy at school and we are happy with how it`s worked out. Ideally they would do more with languages early and there are private schools that do 1/2 and 1/2 German/ English which are not an option for us (company sponsors private schooling at ISZL).

I don`t think language is a real issue for children so young. If you immerse them they will learn very quickly.

[rivenoby]

Thanks Brian - that's incredibly helpful!

We are looking at ISZL and ISOCS as well as the local schools - so great to hear a positive testimony. Hard to make a call on how long we'll be out here as depends on how my job goes, so trying to tread the minefield in terms of getting as much out of the experience as possible but still being in a position to move back in a few years if necessary.

Won't be getting help on school fees so not taking the decision lightly!

The coming home to lunch idea does seem strange -my wife isn't working right now but is looking to get back to work as soon as it's viable.

I presume the schools offer childcare over lunch for a price?

[leophillalo]

Are you from the UK Tumbleweed? The lunchtime supervision in the UK started during the war- as women had to go and take over the jobs in factories, etc, whilst the men were on the front. And since then, it has been part of the system. Not the case here, nor in many European countries.

Very few village state schools have lunch-time supervision, maybe none?

And even in towns, it is rare. Here where I live, there are official maman de jour/or special creches for before school, lunch-time and after school supervision. The cost is split between a special employers fund, the Council and the parents. The cost here is 60CHF per day for such partial care - 25CHF for the parents. This is only payable if you use an 'offcial' and registered person. When I was a kid growing up in CH in the 50s, that didn't exist at all - my mum worked too far from home but we had lunch with dad - after school we just looked after ourselves from very young. In the 6th Form, one of my school friends came from too far to return home so his parents paid another mum to have him over for lunch.

[msway]

So the young ones won`t really learn German at ISZL, they start German lessons in Kindergarten but it`s not the same intensity as local school or half and half International School. I don`t think a couple of years of local school will hurt the 5 year old, the 3 year old could do day care and be immersed in Swiss German. I know 8-9 year olds at ISZL who can start speaking German with the local children.

Is your wife finding employment here realistic? Is she going to the open market looking for a job or does she have an employer lined up.

It can be very difficult to find employment here if you don`t speak German and are not specialized in something that someone wants. There are lots of International companies but they also promote people from subsidiaries and bring them here so it`s not as easy as the unemployment rate may suggest.

If you use the search function you will find lots of threads about local vs international school and the children's personalities come up a lot and age. The common theme tends to be the younger the better for local school.

I can`t speak about local schools vs international school. I can only compare the international school with my own education experience and it`s chalk and cheese, but so are the fees.

[rivenoby]

Thanks Odile!

I'm afraid I am from the UK and in my ignorance took the full day childcare for granted! Didn't realise the loss of the lunchtime break was a hangover from the war along with all the pubs closing at 11pm!

Good to know that there are potential solutions in terms of creches though even if the cost sounds prohibitive and availability patchy.

Brian,

Thanks again- yes I feared that the international school German lessons mightn't be as intense as the local schools given the less pressing need to get up to speed as quickly if all your schoolfriends speak english.

My gut instinct is you're absolutely right - I've no fear about my 3 year old hitting the ground running in a swiss-german kindergarten, it's more that my older son although happy and outgoing is coming from a small class in a close-knit country village primary school and I'm wary of throwing him into what might be a tough situation initially and getting that knocked out of him!

Was even considering hiring a German tutor in the meantime if we go down the swiss schools route to try and give him and my wife a headstart as we do have a bit of time ( my job starts shortly, and I'll be commuting from the UK, but given the logistics the family are likely to follow at the end of the school year in July. )

My wife doesn't have a job lined up but she's a web developer by trade and those skills are transferable as far as I know, but I can imagine a lot of vacancies won't be advertised locally.

Thanks for the heads up - will start to do some homework on that side!

Are there any areas in the Kanton that you could recommend in terms of facilities and outdoor space to bring up young children?

[Rivetita]

Your son will not go to primary school here as he is too young - Swiss kids start school as late as at the age of 7 - so he would probably get enrolled in kindergarten, which is some sort of pre -school here. He should adapt fast and lear the language in no time if he goes to a local one. Young kids learn languages incredibly fast.

[ally_bunn]

As far as I know kindergarten doesnt start until the child is 4. This cutoff here in Canton Zurich is 4 by April (I think) So your 3 year old will not be old enough yet.

Having experienced both the UK, Swiss local and International Schools I have the following perspective:

UK and Swiss system is very different in terms of what they offer and expect from your child. Kindergarten is fantastic in many ways. The children are outdoors a lot, in small classes and there is lots of play.

In Swiss kindergarten there is no academic work at all. It is about learning how to socialise, listen, follow instructions and make friends ready for school. The children do not learn to read, write or anything academic. That starts when the start school in the UK eqivalent of year 2. My younger son (no experience of UK system) loved this. My older son who moved from when he was in year 1 was shocked and was not happy. But it does give them time to learn German without the additional pressure of learning to read and write in German too. They just have to learn to speak it.

In Canton Zurich only Swiss German is spoken in kindy, Im not sure about Zug, so the German is learnt throught listening only.

Also the children are much more independent. Likely to walk to school alone in the equivalent of reception and year 1. My youngest loved this. Also other things are different e.g. much less supervision in the playground and expected to sort out problems between themselves a bit more. Also the timetable is likely to be morning school 8 to 12, Then lunch at home (or at the lunch club called Hort - this you have to pay for. Graded costs by salary. Your child will walk there with their peers if it isnt attached to the building.) You can walk them if you like as it is very unlikely they will be supervised on the walk by a school adult as the times outside of school hours are not the responsibilty of the school.

So international schools - more like the UK system in terms of pastoral care and attitudes to the children. They can be quite American in attitude. More academic at a younger age e.g. my kindy age child comes home with a reading book and his day is much more structured than when he was at Swiss kindergarten. The size of the school will be larger too.

The school day will be 8.30 to 3ish with lunch included in the day.

Your child will more than likely not be able to play with the local kids in your local playground because they will not be able to speak with them but on the other hand the international schools will provide you and your family with a ready made social life and friends for your children.

So anyway thats my experience as an English mum of the logistics of both systems. They both have their pluses and negatives.

If you have any specific questions feel free to send a pm

As for outside space and play areas - as long as you dont live in the middle of a town most areas have lots of places to play and the forest is usually pretty close by for extra exploring. The lake beaches are fantastic in the summer.

Its quite long but I wanted to cover a few issues, apoligies for typo its late!

[msway]

Switzerland is great for young kids. I don`t know if the quality of the local schools vary and which ones are better if any.

Depends what you are looking for. Houses tend to be expensive so depends on whether you want a house or are happy with an apartment.

Zug is most expensive in the Kanton but you are in the middle of town. Baar, Cham, Steinhausern are all a little bit cheaper but close (under 10 minutes) from Zug.

The Ageri`s upper and lower are a bus into Zug by public transportation and are higher altitude. It will be a bit cheaper again you will get more sunlight in winter (and more snow) because you are above the fog but you are kind of out of the way. A lot of people who live their into cycling/ hiking love it.

Walchwill is steep (as in gradient not price, hard to find anything flat) and about 10 minutes from Zug but on the other side of the International school in Baar and Cham. A convenience store but no supermarket but again you are 10 minutes from Zug.

Risch/ Rotkreuz / Buonas/ Hunenberg all about 15 minutes away from Zug, good access to highway to the airport, and Zurich and Lucern. Bit cheaper than the others. Rotkruez isn't great character wise but the others imo are nice villages. I live in Risch so I am biased. A lot of people in Zug don`t know where Risch is but it`s 15 minutes to Zug, ISZL Baar, 20 minutes Luzern and less than 45 minutes drive to the airport (all 4 of these places fit that description).

You could also consider some of the places in Kanton Zurich like Affoltern am Albi and the villages just south. These will be cheaper again but will have higher taxes. Whether that trade off is a positive or negative you'd have to figure out.

Also, the north part of Kanton Luzern can have the same thing. Cheaper rent, more likely to find a house, you`ll pay more in taxes. With the motorway you are still probably under 20 minutes to Zug.

I don`t know a lot about Horgen and the villages around there.

Private outdoor space isn't always abundant. There are lots of playgrounds though.

Buut definitely take a look around. homegate.ch and get an idea if you haven't already.

[clailson]

I live in canton Zug, and have my youngest daughter in the Swiss school system, she started the Kindergarten at the age of 4 1/2 and did the two years of kindergarten and is now in the 1st grade. She spoke no german before she started, and now speaks swiss-german with her friends and high-german in the classroom without really thinking about it most of the time. She loves the swiss school and it seems to be going well for her. It is a lot different from the UK. The kids walk to Kindergarten/school alone or with friends, and are expected to - it's like one of the goals the teachers set for them. They play out whatever the weather (there is no such thing as unsuitable weather merely unsuitable clothing!!). They have half days in the woods, and if its snowing and blowing a blizzard then they still go and just light a fire once they are there! There are alot of practical skills and although there are no formal academics in the Kindergarten, they do worksheets, and lots of activities leading up to "proper" learning. Once they start first grade (aged 6 1/2 to 7 1/2 depending on their birthday) they start with the sit down and learn straight away. Also the non-german speaking kids get German lessons within the Kindergartens and schools once or twice a week to help them. There are lots of kids within the swiss system who do not have german as a first language, so especially in canton Zug your kids will not be the only ones. The age cut off in canton Zug is the end of February (unlike England with the end of August). As your kids are 3 and 5, the youngest will not be old enoûgh to start Kindergarten 1 (unless he turns 4 by the end of February?) and the oldest will probably be in Kindergarten 2 (unless he turns 6 by the end of Feb!) I am very impressed so far with the swiss system. The kids also get swimming lessons and PE as part of the Kindergarten and primary schools.

Now for the other half of your question, International schools. My eldest 2 children have been at ISZL since we moved here. This is our 5th year in Switzerland and they are very happy there. I think it is a great school and have been very impressed with 99% of the teachers. It has a great atmosphere and the kids get the opportunity to travel within and outside of Switzerland (after 3rd grade) when there is a week away with their whole grade each year. So far between them they have visited Italy( Cortona and Florence), Paris, Germany, Crete and Iceland) on the "Personal Development Weeks" as well as winter sports holidays /day out experiences. My son has also been to Geneva, Berne, Basel, Munich... as part of the Football team, so as they get older there are alot of fantasic opportunities available to them. I can't comment on the ISZL experience lower than 4th grade though. I have heard from other english-as-first-language parents that lower down the school (Kindergarten- 3rd grade) that sometimes the english speaking kids got bored as you are putting them in a class with alot of non-english speaking kids and a lot of the focus is on basic english. It was one of the reasons we decided on swiss school for our youngest (that and the 30,000 chf per year per child!!)

I like both systems, and it depends what you are looking for. One thing though it is not just the lunch time you will have to cover for a few years, it is most of the afternoons too. Kindergarten 1 is 4 mornings and 1 afternoon, Kindergarten 2 is 5 mornings and 2 afternoons. The rest of the time is free. School times for Kindergarten are roughly 8.30 - 11.35 and 1.30-3.00. The primary school is 8.15-11.35 and 1.30-3.00. First grade is 5 mornings and 3 afternoons, and wednesday afternoons are always free up until school leaving age.

Hope some of this is useful, and good luck with the move

[Ternsh]

Your children won't need a tutor. Really. We had one for my son - he was ten when we arrived, but it didn't add anything.

My 6.y.o daughter and he both got extra German lessons from the community. Our younger daughter - then 4 - picked up German quickly from kindergarten and needed no extra lessons.

For your wife, German lessons with others will probably be more beneficial than private tuition. If she's a good self-learner, I recommend babbel.com. My wife (who is now pretty good at German) rates it better than Rosetta Stone.

[rivenoby]

Thanks so much for all your insights and experience everyone - it's enormously appreciated as we consider this probably the most important decision we'll be making in the relocation process!

NotAllThere- thanks for the tips - good to know that tutor not necessarily hugely beneficial, and will definitely give Babbel.com a try!

rachael8816 and Heather4 - thanks so much for the insights and benefits of your experience on both sides of the system! Looks like there are clear and distinct benefits of choosing either option, and no wrong answer!

Great to know about the extra german lessons in the state schools as well - sounds like it could be a good option to enrol in the state school initially with the option of always transferring to an international school later if required, and keeping them busy with a few extra-curricular clubs n the meantime (they both do swimming and rugby at present over here!). Have lined up visits to ISOCS and ISZL campuses over half term on a scouting mission!!

Brian - thanks a million for the insider guide to the Canton! Having suffered a long commute in the UK I'm keen to stay relatively close to Zug, but prefer village life so will definitely check out your suggestions on Homegate etc.

McGregor's Daughter -thanks : good to know! Hope they'll learn quickly and absorb the german fast, but great to hear that it seems to be the norm!

Sorry for being such a newbie but how do I add the formal thanks for a helpful post to boost all your stats??!

Alternatively, happy to say thanks in coffee or beer form when I start in Zug in a few weeks!

[Rivetita]

Be careful, people (a.k.a. me ) might remember that. It's a hard decision to make, but if you intend to stay in Switzerland for more than just a few years, state school would be a good choice. The young ones will understand and spek Swiss German in no time and they will make friends fast. If both you and your wife want to work full time you would need somebody to take care of them duringt he long lunch hour. Switzerland is not good for working mums and I am glad my kids were old enoigh to look after themselves when we moved here. Good luck!

[ore_ii]

Hi Tumbleweed and congratulations for your new job.

we just moved to Switzerland last summer.

Zug is a perfect place to raise children in my opinion.

my children are almost the same age ( 6 and 3), they go to an international school. I can't say I am extremely happy with the school, as i compare it to the one our daughter went to last year, it was in another country though.

We decided for an intl school because kids only spoke English.

If we stay here longer, they will probably go to the local school.

In my area there are many foreigners and most of them send their children to private schools. Some prefer local and one lady said her daughter is very happy there, she just started at 1st grade last august.

I think if there are other foreign/english speaking kids in the class, it might be easier.

As another lady told me that they sent her daughter (5) to the local kindergarden and she was the only foreign child. Nobody wanted to play or talk to her and the girl was very unhappy, so parents decided to switch to english school.

In my opinion (and maybe I am wrong), international schools in Switzerland are not very concerned about quality of education and academic growth. It's more about friendly, peaceful, stress-free environment for your children.

Good luck with your move.

[pedrodria]

Sorry to hear that, but also surprised as there is no shortage of foreigners in Zug. I imagined all local schools would have lots of foreign kids.

[ivane]

we have 3 kids at ISZL, and we absolutely love it. the biggest adjustment for us as parents was the emphasis on physical activity and the arts, which is something that is (no pun intended) increasingly foreign in the US. the only thing we worry about is a future transition back to the US school system, since some of the basics are taught differently in the international schools. that said, the nicest thing is that the school does not see social engineering as one of its core objectives, which is a very, VERY welcome change from our experience in the US.

[Emralynd]

Hi Tumbleweed, I would recommend having a look at Four Forest in Zug as a bilingual alternative. My kids go to the sister school in Luzern and it has worked out quite well.

[clailson]

I can only speak through experience of one international school here (ISZL) but I would completely disagree with the impression that they are not concerned about a high quality of education. My impression of ISZL is that they are continually striving to give the kids the best and highest quality education that they can. The majority of my experience has been with the Middle and High school (although one of my kids did 4th and 5th grade in the lower school). I would say that the step between lower and middle is a big jump in the academic expectations and pace of learning. I think the kids in the ISZL Middle and High schools are ahead of their contemporaries in England and definitely in the USA. It is definitely not an easy ride and you have to work hard to get the good grades. I think the kids are given all the facilities and very good teachers, but it is down to them to make use of their opportunities.

Also how academic do you expect it to be for a 3 and 6 year old?!

[Agnet]

You've already gotten many good replies and important perspectives concerning schools and places to live around Zug. I have no experience with local Swiss school, but have three small children who attended ISZL since preschool and onwards.

We have had only good experiences with ISZL. Preschool (children from 3 yr) has been amazing and truly developed our daugther, socially as academically (our other two children first started at ISZL from prekindergarten). I was impressed with how they used play on academic matters as letters, numbers and shapes in experiments (e.g. physics, biology), gardening and small explorer trips into the woods, supermarket, kitchen (cooking/baking) etc.

We are not native English speakers. This means while native/advanced English speaking children are having German lessons, our 6 year old child together with others is receiving extra English lessons (this started last year while she was 5 years old). It is a win-win, the native English speaking children get challenged in getting better at German while our children improve their English skills.

Still, our children receive German lessons at school too, they are just learning it at a slower speed. It is their third language and they are still quite young (4, 6 and 9 years old). We'll get there

We all practise German at home as well where we speak German with our lovely Swiss neighbours.

I have heard good things about the local schools too, however to me personally, it would be a stressful issue with the lunch break where I would have to be home, have lunch prepared every day from 12-13 and after that one or two of the children would have to return to school for maybe an hour only. To me it seems like a lot of coming and going on a daily basis where I would be stuck to the house preparing lunch and looking after children.

It suits our routines well that the children are all together at one place at the same time, from 8.50- 15.30. The activities in school are made suitable for the childrens age, meaning that the little ones have more breaks and 'quiet time' as well.

For us ISZL has been a good solution. Now this year our children have started attending some of the free club activities after school and they have made many good friends at the school

It is of course a personal choice what is best for you and your family. In our case the company pays most school fees and we didn't know on arrival how long time we were to stay in CH. We came from an English speaking country and felt that it would best for our children to continue the 'red thread' in school with English being the tuition language.

If you already now know you will be on a local/long term contract the local school may be a better choice for you as it often makes a great short cut to get to know locals (children as well as grown ups) at a much faster speed (from what I heard).

Good luck and welcome to Zug. I hope you will all be happy here

[antharlot]

Dont assume anything! ASSUME = ASS out of U and ME

Many local schools do not offer but expect the kids to go home at lunch as that is cultural.

Some schools may offer it for a price