We have been thinking about enrolling our son in ZIS (Zurich International School) and there are a few question we would like to know directly from parents whose children are (have been) in this school:
1/ the education is in English and German or mainly in English? The idea is that my son (if he wishes...) will go later to a Swiss/German University, so I’d prefer he doesn’t have any trouble with this language.
2/ how good are they encouraging the students to go later to the university? How’s the ratio of students to go further in their studies?
3/ we have been told about the fees, but meals and extra activities are not included. How much all could be on a yearly basis? We are not a rich family at all! (and unfortunately public schools with those crazy schedules are not an option for us)
4/ how satisfied are you in general with the school (level of education, teachers, facilities, atmosphere... )?
We have been also checking the school Montessori Rietberg but if I’m not wrong, they offer only vegetarian meals Any feedback from this school will be also very appreciated
The international schools are pretty extortionate, i dont think you really understand until you add up everything they have on their website fees and then add on 1000chf for excursions, work out how much dinners would cost.
We worked out that for our daughter was going to be nearly 30k.
It may be worth looking at what your local public school does offer, some schools offer breakfast clubs, lunch supervision and after school care which you obviously pay for but its nothing in comparrison to what you would be paying out for otherwise.
If you really want your son to learn the kanguage and go to university out here i would say you are obviously planning a longer stay and it would possibly be more beneficial he intergrates by going into a local school.
They offer so much help with the language its worth seeing how your school could possibly work for you.
If you are here for the long haul, I agree with the previous poster and the local school path. The amount of money you pay for the International school is not worth it, IMO. Another reason I don't like the International school route is the friends of your child are not just down the road (at least not usually) and there is a lot of running around taking the kids to play dates, sleep overs and the like when they get older.
So, sorry, I can't answer your question, but hopefully someone else can do so...
Rietberg Montessori offers up to the end of Primary school and from what I understand from friends and colleagues there, the education is very strong for both english and german, and they comply with the expectations of the swiss curriculum.
ZIS operates outside the swiss school system, is english dominant, and obviously offers to the end of high school. I would be surprised if many kids go from there into German/Swiss university - I'd expect they mostly go to english tertiary studies.
It's not hard to get a place in the local primary school in Adliswil and get a place for the 'Hort' for before school, lunch and after school.
Even to get a nanny and put your kids in the local school would be cheaper than ZIS, especially if there is more than one child.
Personally, I'd not let the 'vegetarian meals' put you off the idea of Rietberg, but Montessori school is quite different to traditional education, and if your child had not done Montessori preschool then the transition could be quite steep, so definitely check it out 'on the ground' and maybe even ask to do a trial visit and see if he enjoys it.
Most parents would like to think their kids ate more veggies every day, so a vegetarian lunch would easily balance a meat-focused dinner...
all instruction at the int'l schools is in English, except for language courses. there is a path from the int'l school program to Swiss / German universities, but it is not terribly well-known among the students and the schools are much more geared toward other university systems. that said, nearly all of the int'l school kids will go on to higher education somewhere, though as is the case nearly everywhere this statistic may have more to do with the type of kid that attends int'l schools than with the education itself.
in addition to tuition, the meals / transportation / extras will probably run you somewhere just north of 5,000 CHF a year per child.
First of all, thank you so much for your comments!
@ loulabelle and drmom : actually CHF 30k are the fees without meals and extras My husband is Swiss and my son does speak Swiss German, so integration and so on are not an issue for us. The main ‘problem’ we have are the public schools schedules (I’m sorry but in my case it’s a big NO to my child leaving school alone to go to the Hort etc) and on the other hand, I personally have the impression that Swiss public schools do not challenge the children to go to the University. I’m not saying that this is a ‘must’ for me, but in canton Zurich children have to be deciding their future (professional school or University?) at a very young age, and some kids would need more information or advices than what they are receiving in public schools.
@ Swisspea : I appreciate your comment because if ZIS operates outside the Swiss system is not definitely for us... It’s very close to where we live though...
Obviously the vegetarian meals in Rietberg aren’t the problem. It’s just that makes me think whether is an additional philosophy behind since the Montessoris I know outside Switzerland are not vegetarians. But everything is different in Switzerland!
@ crazygringo : Voilà! Your comment makes me hesitate... because if in fact exists this path to the Swiss or German universities ZIS could stay in our list...
Why is Swiss education system so complicated? Why is Switzerland so complicated? gggrrr
On the vegetarian thing, I think it's more a case of having plenty of parents who request vegetarian meals, and not needing to ask for special meals for those kids, and the cost of meat is high, so it probably reduces the cost to parents too...it's also very normal in other childcares here to offer only vegetarian food, or to have meat maybe two times a week, and veges/non-meat protein etc the other three times per week. Lots of dairy, often 'bio' veges or 'locally sourced' - these swiss definitely fuss about their food.
And nope, Montessori in Switzerland isn't a lot different to Montessori in the USA, Australia, or the UK, in my experience.
I think there have been changes in the rules (or there are plans in the pipeline) as to whether your child is allowed to go to an International school, if you are Swiss. I know that the changes were for Canton Zurich, and you may find that with your husband being Swiss and you not having plans to move out of Switzerland(?) that you might not be able to enrol your son in the International system. I think the Swiss authorities were unhappy at the amount of Swiss families choosing the International schools rather than the Swiss system and were trying to limit International schools to foreigners or those who were on short contracts in Switzerland etc. All the International schools operate outside the Swiss curriculum. I have children in both systems, and am happy with both. I am lucky that I can stay at home and be here for all the weird swiss school hours, I think it is a bit of a nightmare if there are 2 working parents though. Fees for the International schools usually include all the excursions, field trips etc. It is very rare that I have to pay out anything extra. There have been a few smallish bills for travel to sports tournaments etc but nothing major. I believe in the Swiss system there are a number of apportunities to get into the gymnasium (and hence University) stream depending on how your child does in school. I think (as my child in the swiss system is only about to go to 1st klasse) there is a chance at 6th, 8th and 9th grade. Hardly any kids for my childrens International school apply to Swiss University, unless they are Swiss! The german lessons at the International schools aren't really enough to allow you to study say a Science in german at University. I think you would have to be german as a first language to go to Swiss University. Good Luck finding the right school for your son
Maybe one of the reasons that Swiss schools do not 'challenge' the children to go to the University is that 'Uni type' learning is not what all children are really best at and the possibilities here are not limited to a straight line - primary school, gymnasium, Uni > and then what? There are enough youngesters who don't even want to do this. An Apprenticeship and Berufsmatura followed by further education can also lead to running ones own business and being successful enough to be requested to lecture at a 'Fachhochschule'. This is just one of the many possibilites.
Thank you Longbyt. Yes I agree with you and precisely I have many Swiss friends who have told me they just didn’t go to the University because of what you are saying. However my experience is that once you are working only the best jobs/salaries are going for those who went to the University.
Moreover, there’s some kind of social (ridiculous) feeling that considers best to those who went to the University. As a mother I want my child to have the chance to do what HE wants but not what an old-fashion system decides for him.
An example, my sister was an awful student as a teenager. It was not lack of intelligence; it was just that she was a dreamy girl . Nowadays, and thanks to my parents, teachers and especially to a fair system that allowed her to react on time, she’s a professor at a good University. I do not think this could happen here, I’m afraid.
Basically, what is the difference between my example and yours except that I honestly don't think it bothers the guy I was talking about. I don't think it bothers his parents, his friends or the people who admire his drive and ability either.
It's important to remember though that in Switzerland university is only for very specific courses. For example engineering is not a university degree. That being said, if you feel strongly about formal university further education, you can either push your son to get into gimnasium, or in my personal experience, almost all international students go to uni. In my graduating class from ISZL, only one student did not attend uni (out of around 70 in total).
In much of the world that is the case, but I don't think in Switzerland it is so. Only a small percentage of Swiss choose to go to University, not because they aren't smart enough to do so, but because there are more choices of ways to get to the same goal.
To correct what unistudent said, of course engineering is university degree. In Zurich at the ETH, which is a university.
I agree with him/her, that the majority of students from international schools attend university, no matter whether this is in Switzerland or elsewhere in the world. They often have highly successful parents who see the best education in a university degree only.
In Switzerland indeed there are many other options, especially if you go through the local school system. It's a lot more difficult if you have an international educational background and do not understand the system here. (and they won't understand your's either).
Indeed, most of the International School students are geared toward university. However, heaven forbid, should your child not want to do this, or is not able , the International School education is inferior to the public Swiss one. We have known several international students, with special needs, who were strung along until high school. Then, they were encouraged to find another school, or path. (or not offered a high school diploma, but a sort of certificate. ) Depending upon the timing, it might be impossible to enter the Swiss system, or find an apprenticeship. Naturally, the language is also a big problem.
However, Zurich International School is a warm, fuzzy type of place, which is easy to love. The teachers are accustomed to positive reinforcement and lots of praise. It is an amazing place to enjoy "membership", and a sad place to leave, if you do not fit.
Another factor is the long term financial impact. Should your child want to study abroad, the costs can be much higher than ZIS fees. I suppose some people are more reasonable than us, but it is a path we chose. For two of our children, it was a positive experience, leading them to higher education in exceptional, although costly, universities. Yet, is there a price for Oxford?
The first comment is a tired old cliche. Swiss education is not better than that offered by an international school. Nor is it any worse. It is just a little different but essentially sharing the same basis.
A child will find it difficult to get onto an apprenticeship from an international school because they will not speak the language as well as someone who has gone through the local Swiss system. Anything else is pure window dressing to try and obfuscate this fact.
The idea that the academic standards required by an apprenticeship are higher than those demanded by some of the finest universities on the planet is laughable.
Tuborg, please re-read my "cliche", as I fear you read it out of context. I did not want to say, the "International School is inferior to the Swiss One", but rather "If your child does not want, or is not able to, go to university, the International School is inferior to the Swiss One"....
Obviously, I agree with your comment about the language. It is a sad fact, which may be inherent to the Swiss society and not the International School. Our children attended five International Schools, and the local languages were usually quite integrated into the playgrounds. They were also often invited into the local families' homes. This has not been our experience in Switzerland, and my husband is Swiss!
Sorry, where did you extract this idea?
"The idea that the academic standards required by an apprenticeship are higher than those demanded by some of the finest universities on the planet is laughable.[/QUOTE]"
I suppose our eight years of school fees grants me permission for an opinion.
Perhaps I did take it out of context. So, could you explain why you deem an International school education to be inferior to that offered at a Swiss state school - excluding language issues?
That's crap. I assess every year students taking the entrance exam to gymnasium. Furthermore, the Swiss teachers have no problem telling a rich arrogant parent that the child doesn't go to gymnasium because of grades, making it a far more academicly fair system than any private one. I belong to the people who send Swiss students to university (and quite a fw Germans too, but that's another story), and take my professional word: you have obviously no idea.
I am usually far nicer, but you realy pushed it too far in only a few messages. Late reaction, I know, but I am truely furious
For the Tuborg/susan question, I would say that the international system is not made for apprenticeship in the first place. Of course it doesn't match! The Finnish system either, by the way, even with all the gold medals it got. Education is vertical, it means that one step leads to other logical steps. Not all steps aside are possible or natural. It is a design issue, not level or quality one.