Link here with interactive map: Initiative für eine 13. AHV-Rente
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I agree with you that we do not react enough to the healthcare costs increase but an 8% increase is pretty big - you thinking it’s peanuts and “will come from somewhere” is exactly the kind of mentality that lead to a yes vote with no clue on how to finance it and thinking “someone else will”
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That’s the fun stuff here now - waiting for the counter referendum on 13th AHV…
BTW, in July there will be voting for 2 popular initiatives related to limitation of the cost of health insurance.
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Working people and employers spend that money. It’s not coming from the government. This is the danger here, that people just think they can claim it from some anonymous fund.
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So your solution is to increase their spending, OK for me.
Geezer.
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That’s exactly it - voting on something like this without explaining to people where the money will come from means a lot of people think it comes from thin air and that “the government” has money in itself - which it does not… All taxes and contributions…
You would expect the average Joe to understand this concept but unfortunately I don’t think many do…
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Good point, but in all fairness I also wonder if it’s really necessary. As far as I know they want an upgrade from F18 (I think) to F35 but maybe it’s because the Swiss do seem to want all the newest and shiniest things in general…oder?..well at least we have bunkers…
Hmmm…to me it looks like increasing their spending will do happen if the yes camp will win. But whose “solution” is it? I take it the voters will have the last word on this one…
Seems there is a yes. Wow.
If the payout of pensions increases then the payments into the scheme have to increase to cover the extra cost otherwise people will get a benefit they did not pay for.
It is not rocket science, is it?
Hangover day. Where the money comes from?
- Increase taxes (VAT among them).
- Higher AHV deduction every month. That means the salary after deductions of all people working goes down.
- Higher retirement age. That got a NO vote yesterday.
#2 is too transparent. Everyone will see their income go down. So, expect additional referendums and protest. #1 allows to split the expenses somewhere in the national budget. We will still pay, but harder to point at how, so easier to implement.
The issue here is is how many business are on razor thins margins of profitability. A little increase in interest rates already forced the closure of some business. A little increase in costs can send a few more in the way of “restructuring”. Maybe it’s the right time to do it, unemployment rate in CH is in record lows. It’s time for some creative destruction.
But where will the money come from? The Federal Council and Parliament must decide on this – and quickly. The expansion exacerbates the AHV’s financing problems from the start: According to the official projections, the social welfare agency will be in the black in 2026, but by 2030 there will be a shortfall of three billion francs and in 2033 seven billion. The rule that the AHV fund must cover 100 percent of the annual pension amount will be violated from 2027.
But no matter how politicians proceed, another vote can be expected. The conceivable variants will necessarily lead to a referendum or are likely to provoke a referendum. The focus is on three options: higher taxes, higher wage contributions – or a higher retirement age.
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or option #4
How? The AHV is “umlagefinanziert”, i.e. what comes in in form of social charges on salaries is directly paid out in form of pensions. Very small reserves in AHV, certainly no fund for future retirees.
If you want to tap into pension funds / second pillar - I think this would legally very difficult and for sure challenged by a referendum. Almost certain to win also.
By increasing VAT, one would at least have pensioners contributing to financing. It would be awful if it only landed on the shoulders of the working population.
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AHV fund is already around the minimum:100% of annual expenses. Check the NZZ article, even with the VAT increase from 7.7 to 8.1 % the AHV needs additional income starting 2027.
I know there’s some words in the Swiss constitution about AHV and enough for living, but this cannot go against simple accounting.
The 2nd pillar reform was implemented back on 1985. Will provided, it was possible to see the sunset of 1st pillar (AHV) since 39 years ago. Looking at current stats and trends, I would not count on 1st pillar for retirement. Referendums will keep coming, but the ship is slowly sinking since 1985.
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It is capped at 2400 CHF per month, and that is only of you have paid into AHV without any gaps and always earned above 80k or so. Maximum for married couples is 3650 CHF (the real “Heiratstrafe” if you ask me).
None of us here will get anything close to the maximum.
Actually, there is, just because workers get older and retire their jobs do not disappear. The Swiss need to bring in more “expats” to fill those vacabcies.
The Swiss are sensible and pragmatic people so they know they voted for this solution and do not expect something for nothing.
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Of course, the best way to attract expats is increasing VAT and income deductions.
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In reality it’s free money, the wife profits even if she never worked a single hour. A privilege for those who cry the loudest, but every lie is believed after endless repetition.
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