Buying a dream apartment without a lift?

Accomodation, House and Garden
1
Hi All- I am looking at a rather expensive apartment 2.5mio+ on silver coast with absolutely fantastic lake+mountain views, however the apartment is on 3rd floor without a lift (may be thats why its not 3mio+)! Broker says that a lift installation should be possible (ca. 70k), however it needs to be approved by other (2) parties in the apartment building.

What do you guys think? Has anyone bought an apartment and then installed a lift later? On one hand its a dream apartment, which is super difficult to find in this price range and on the other hand, I'll be spending CHF 2.5m+ and then still don't have something as basic as a lift !! Confused!

I don't mind paying for the lift by myself but am not sure if it can really be installed - building permissions, agreement with other owners, finding space for the lift etc etc.....I was thinking of knocking on the doors of two other owners in the building and asking them directly if they'd be ok with lift installation- do you think its acceptable in CH?

Given the hot property market, I don't have the luxury to really haggle the broker/owner and take a lot of time as I'm sure that there would be other buyers interested!

Any thoughts?

2
Sounds like decision is predicated on ensuring feasibility of a lift so I would make a purchase contingent on scoping it to include the costs & agreement among neighbors up front

Never ever, esp. en Suisse, go into a purchase assuming you can reach a subsequent but linked & crucial step with ease - you will otherwise back yourself into a corner you were already aware of

3
Never forget the opportunity to ask the neighbours, even if you have to drag a translator with you. Would they object? Perhaps those on the second floor would share in the cost?

You never know until you ask ....

4
We missed out on a dream house for the same reason. You had to take stairs to the front entrance. This was the first thing that the estate agent agent told us, to the point that he said we shouldn't view the property if this was a problem. It wasn't a problem until he said it.

We made some cheeky offers and at the end we were only about CHF100k apart, but the 'lift thing' stuck in my head and I stuck with the lower offer. It eventually sold, but looking back it is a massive regret!

If the location is great and the place is great and the lack of lift is not going to negatively impact your life, I would go for it.

Also, CHF70k sounds way to little for a lift installation, but I really have no experience

5
Q. Why is the property available and not been snapped up?

A. There is no lift.

Broker say a lift would be "about 70k". He'll get his commission if you buy and you will never get a lift installed - presumably an external one - for 70K.

Rule #1 when buying: "can i resell it?" Can you??

6
Do you want to stay there for the rest of your life? At 30 3 stairs is not that much, at 70 it can become cumbersome for some. To keep in mind if the neighbours protest the lift......

7
My 2P:

About 10 years ago I tried to get permission to install a lift in the house we already owned, to accommodate a person in a wheelchair.

We have Gestaltungsplan in our Quartier that forbids exterior changes to the houses. Even disabled access would require neighbors agreeing to an exception.

The neighbors refused. So no permit, no lift.

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So - if the lift is a deal breaker for you:

First check for yourself if there are any covenants that would preclude a lift. Don't take the agent's or seller's word for it, go to the Bauamt. And then ask if any other authorities might also be responsible for a decision.

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Do not, under any circumstances, assume permission from neighbors will be given, no matter what anyone says. Negotiate with the current owner that he or she gets permission in writing from the neighbors, the Bauamt, and any other relevant authorities prior to the sale . This is the only time you have leverage.

You may need to present building plans in order to get that permission.

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Do not be surprised if the neighbors ask for compensation in exchange for their permission - that is becoming common as people realize that their agreement has value.

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All this will take time, which you may not have in this competitive market. If you can honestly, for years to come, live with out a lift, then go ahead.

But if a lift is a must, this might not be the flat for you.

*FYI, our plan was a fair bit more than 70K, and this more than 10 years ago. Also an installation in a single family home, which I would assume would be less complicated, and thus less expensive, than in a flat.

8
We bought exactly that 6 years ago, perfect location, unobstructed lake view and no elevator in a small building. Just like your case, lack of elevator was somewhat reflected in the price. My 2 cents:

- For me personally no elevator hasn't been an issue at all

- I discovered that many times the owners of the building had discussions of installing an elevator - all of them failed to reach unanimity (which means you need everybody on board to agree and share the costs) If you create the elevator for yourself only still you would need the agreement of everybody else because you will use the common parts of the building.

- I would bet there is not much of a chance to create an elevator in your place that is why there isn't, otherwise owner would have installed one for 100k and sell the place for 3M

- Try to negotiate a price you are happy to pay with no elevator in consideration and enjoy. Hope when time comes to sell you will still bank. Which is exactly what happened to me

9
Checking and getting approval from neighbours is one step. There may be other requirements from the Gemeinde so tread carefully and do your due diligence with the local authorities, i.e., get their pre-approval first, if a lift is a "must-have"

10
FYI, on my way to googling something else I found this 'Liftberatung' company in Horgen, so more or less in the neighborhood.

It might behoove you to have a quick chat with them to get an idea of prices - and I would assume they might know the permission process.

Perhaps ask to see the flat again, with someone from the firm accompanying you?

https://www.liftberatungen-iten.ch/?...CAAEgJLm_D_BwE

(No personal experience with this firm, simply found while searching...)

11
you will not get a lift installed there.

12
Neighbors from nearby properties or from the same building?

In both cases, what a lack of humanity

13
They won't agree if there's nothing in it for them (financial or otherwise).

That's why there are so many laws here. People need a law so they can be told what to do. No law - no action.

14
Get a really long slide and attach it to your balcony/terrace.

Going up the stairs will still be a chore but coming down the slide will be something else!

15
Supply and retro-installation of the most basic lift (no fancy glass, no fancy interior trim, just a simple metal box!) in my last house, in a small city in France , with a total span of 3.5 metres, was EUR 39,000.

I would be AMAZED if you can get a lift into an apartment on the "silver coast" post fitted for 70k...

16
A elderly friend in Geneva was quoted over 180k francs to install an exterior lift that served the three floors of her detached house (ground floor, first floor, and attic), and that was before negotiating the required permits or seeking agreements with any neighbours that might object to the work.

@xrishabh, if you really like the flat and don't have, or expect to have, foreseeable problems such as small children (going up and down stairs multiple times a day carry a wriggling toddler, a push-chair, plus all their stuff is not fun) then go for it.

You can always sell up and move if the stairs become an issue as you get older. But don't rely on being able to fit a lift..... you might be able to but don't base your decision on what agent currently says.

17
That was my first thought. If the owner could have spent 100K and then raised the price by 500K or more, they'd have already done so!

18
Do what the occupants of the apartment block my son lives in. Install a chair lift without asking anyone, and then moan about shoe racks outside apartments taking too much room...

19
If you are fit, 3rd floor is piece of cake! I live on the 5th floor. I would take the stairs even if there was a lift here.

20
I know someone who put a lift in their four floor house here. It was an option and they went for it. None of the other houses in the street went for it.

It was their biggest regret. Complete waste of money and a waste of space - on each of the four floors.