she does not have 20 years to wait until he might or might not be ready though, does she? so what would be the solution here?
My two-cents worth:
- If all couples waited until they felt financially secure enough to start a family, the species would soon become extinct (at least in the Western world). 125K is a perfectly good income, much better than most (average family income in CH is around 65-70K).
- There are important risk factors that now come into play at 34+, don't ignore them (Down's, Spina Bifida, low birth weight, etc. you can Google the facts).
- Me and my wife never had the urge for kids. We decided in the end that we would probably regret it later if we didn't (and she was 32 at the time), and ended up with 2. Best thing we ever did, don't miss it.
- You can always work part-time later, it's not the end of the (working) world as long as you have some marketable skills.
don't forget that, if you are not actually trying now and do not know of any problems which could lead to failure to conceive, you might find your window of opportunity narrowing rapidly.
I have a feeling that Cashboy has been burned once or twice. He has a completely different viewpoint to mine - it seems more selfish than I feel I can be (and each to their own, I think that's ok).
So what insight did you get from total strangers, who neither know you or your situation. If you are desperate enough to take advice from an annonymous public forum as to how you should proceed on something as personal and important as starting a family... I can see why money is any easy opt out for your man.
How exactly do you think he would react to this being flashed around the 'tinterweb, presuming of course you'll tell him.
Accepted , Can you have a family on 125k?, is a reasonable question ....done to death on other threads though. The logic for the husband NOT wanting rugrats is not. This is just an I want, and make me feel nice thing, nothing more. You or I have no knowledge of the real stance of the husband from this one sided thread, so what imput of real value can be gained?
The OP's bio clock is ticking for sure, but if she wants kids, she has to talk to her husband to find out exactly what his position is first, not the great unwashed on here, as most likely they will all say 'go for it'... then post about something else, without a moments thought.
If it is just money which is a weak argument (IMO), maybe he's selfish and self cetered and doesn't want the disturbance, maybe he afraid, who knows, but him.... and most certainly no-one 'warm stroking' on here.
If I though Mama G posted something this important on the web for a coffee set converstation, it wouldn't make me more diposed to discussing it.
Lighten up Mr. Goose. Nothing wrong with asking for opinions, especially from people in similar situations. That is what this forum is for.
Dear Kimba1,
Getting back to your question. The money is more than enough. If you both want children then now is the time. I garantee you won't regret it.
Good luck!
You seem pretty self assured and calm, so the following isn't directed at you personally.
Don't consider having kids by foul means if fair means aren't working. I know several women who 'oops' found themselves pregnant. It's no secret amongst Sisters this happens often and it's a great shame. A child needs a Father - a loving Father at that - and to steal a soul to satisfy a craving is wrong, wrong, wrong.
It would be very hard to make a decision to end a relatively happy relationship because one partner doesn't / does want kids. Although it's not happened to me, I'd hope to keep the relationship, otherwise the relationship is a charade of Love and not a real Love.
Here endeth the lesson
I've cut bits from post/reply ...
There have been a few posts from different perspectives. Look at it as a kind of "market research" for the OP. When I posted on Ikea kitchens (to which you helpfully added) I already had a load of info, but what I wanted was personal perspectives/insights. My first post didn't share all the info I had - sometimes you want blind input. I've taken the info provided, put it together with the info I had and used it for the basis of a discussion and decision.
Neither would I ... but in reverse I wouldn't go to my other half saying "look what PG/Boxman/Slammer posted on this topic". I would, however, consider all the opinions posted and try to discuss the different aspects with my other half; maybe he follows Cashboy's views or maybe he is just financially insecure - sure we may not be fully aware of the other half's position, but the points raised here might trigger discussion and debate to either 1) get to the real reason for delay, and/or 2) identify a solution (whatever that might be).
The Goose is light.... just bewildered at how people can use annonimity rather than friends and family for such personal stuff.
Exactly my point, and the number of broken homes and the detremental effect on the off-spring, or thriving happy unit are possible out comes. She wants he doesn't (for whatever reason) and that shoul be worked out with the help and supprot of people that know them.
I hope they find a soloution, but just don't get the need to spew such private things on here.
OFF TOPIC: Got your kitchen yet
god, we must know the same folk
i have a few friends who got pregnant "accidentally" to keep the partner. It is wrong (when you lie about it) but i can see how they thought this might work (expat, new, not knowing anyone, feeling lonely, missing family etc) As a result, a few years later, they have separated and are essentially single mothers. They do not want to leave switzerland as their child is going to swiss school, speaks swiss german etc.
They are unhappy sometimes as they are not able to go out, socialise as much - having to look after their child alone. The fathers, on the otherhand (most of them being swiss) are essentially leading the same lives (still can work, still have their friends/ family in this country)
I do not have any kids, not sure if i ever want to, but i also agree a child needs both parents.
kimba1, seems like you really want to have a child, but are you willing to raise the child on your own? (not to be pessimistic, but just thinking of the worse case scenario, since you have indicated your partner is not ready, or maybe does not want children)
I only ask this, as i have a friend who decided at age 36 she really wanted a child, got pregnant and is now raising her child alone. She knew from the get go where everyone stood, she told the father that she wanted a child for herself. She is a great single mother (she maybe the exception) but it can work, only if you really think you can handle it on your own.
I hope you will find a solution, i know how hard it is when the clock is ticking
Just a thought:
Maybe your husbands a jaffa....seedless orange...firing blanks.
Maybe you cant have kids.....maybe he cant and he knows that.
People make it sound that having kids is easy.
Not everyone is blessed. Theefore money issues should be one of the last worries, not money.
PG, i know you have experience in these matters, and i've often come to you for advice. (thank you...)
but from my personal experience, when you are in a new country, alone, sometimes an english speaking forum can help. Not everyone has a good relationship with their families or feel they can talk to them on these issues, maybe the OP cannot talk to friends here either, as they may be mutual friends with her partner - pls don't judge the OP too harshly...
I'll go with you on the getting married part - to some small extent.
Having children though? No, that's natural drive. Sex wouldn't be ecstatic if we weren't meant to reproduce.
I would go so far as to say the opinions of anonymous people on this forum are the perfect counter-balance to opinions of friends and family....we have no agenda. Friends and family do (and anyone is kidding themselves if they think otherwise):
- Parents want grandkids, so you know what's behind their advise
- Siblings with kids will encourage you to have them as well, so you have something in common, can go on joint holidays, celebrate xmas together etc.
- Siblings without kids may be jealous and worried that you will get more attention (and potentially monetary help or inheritance) from the grandparents. Especially the single ones, or ones that can't conceive.
- Childless friends will be worried to lose you to the "parents" club, and dread only hearing about your kids and baby-topics
- Friends with kids will back you as you are joining the club, and present opportunities for car-pooling, reciprocal babysitting, endless discussions about raising kids..you will have much more in common.
We have no agenda (certainly we shouldn't).
This morning my 9 mth old son moved over, rested his head on my shoulder and went to sleep. Thank god I'm an illogical thinker!
The most exciting part of my life is ahead when I can take him for a kick around in the park, teach him to snowboard, cook, etc. Some people only focus on the negative parts - of course its tough, but of course its worth it!
The OP obviously needs to get her hubby to open up, the only way to do that is through ultimatum so he stops skirting round the issue. It might not give you the answer you want to hear but it sounds like you need an answer!
Good luck, and don't worry about people here saying you shouldn't be opening up to the forum, I thought thats what forums are for - true its not as good as talking to a friend, but at least you are putting it out in the open and listening to people debate. I hope it helps you get it clear in your head what you need to do.
Bad idea. Have you ever heard anyone say, "our relationship's OK, but would be better if only s/he would issue more ultimatums"? Me neither.
Anyway, for all we know finances really are the issue here and he may not be skirting around anything. I've seen plenty of folks who grew up with more money and genuinely wouldn't believe it possible to support a family on that salary. (They'd be wrong - but they'd be honestly, sincerely wrong.)
Just some thoughts as the conversation headed towards dedicating yourself or not to family/kids:
1st: My opinion was intensively influenced after getting to know some folks on their 50's. Spend some time talking to people from that age onward, try to find examples from both scenarios (with family & children and without) and just give them a chance to share, what did their life mean to them? What were their highlights, motivations and especially: fulfillments. There will be some substantial differences between the answers of both groups, and mostly, very different feeling and excitement being expressed through those answers.
2nd: It has already been mentioned here that certain negative attitudes or opinions to the fact or decision on having children are most certain not only applied to this specific subject. Could it be that people who tend emphasize the negative side at this subject also do that when facing many other life decisions and projects?
Wy are you so sure? I know plenty of dudes who's clock was ticking big time..
I would not read so much into it, before you two can talk about it together. Guys have their own illogical anxieties about fatherhood and parenthood in general.."will I be able to provide financially? will I love the little creature enough? will my wife still take care of me? how on Earth will I know how to change the diaper, bathe it, feed it...etc? aren't them babies too fragile for our big man hands? who will teach me everything I need to know? why aren't my parents around to teach me? what if my wife goes nuts just like this dude's wife at work? is my wife only using me for sperm? of god, she does not love me then! how will I learn about child related things, school, docs, care in Switzerland where I don't communicate so well? is my wife only after my cash now when she wants a kid? do we need a new car? how will I know what everything to take care of before we even knock her up? will she ever have sex with me after I do my duty and we concieve me?..."
See? Ton is going through your head, but through his might as well. If communication was as straight forward as we wish for, life would be boring. He might not want to approach some topics since he does not want to hurt your feelings. Plus, it is quite known that some men are not really in touch with their subconsious fears, some do not know how to word things elegantly, or not mature enough, it might just be easier for your hubby to simply state the financial factor, as it is a legitimate reason (or sounds like one) without making himself search for words, etc..So, I would say, talk it through, patiently. Prepare a lot of flexible options before the talk, too, different scenarios, of you working partailly, for example, or how you two could save up, or maybe even move back, etc..
Again, that is a silly stereotype. The quality of guy's sperm deteorates quickly these days as well, polution, drinking, smoking, stress...
It is not easy to bond in these lands, language block, family far, friends might be not helpful, anonymity might be OP's best bet, Papa Goose. Or, you might consider all these 50 000 members here also desperate enough to search friendships, silly fun, advice etc online instead of in real life.
OP, good luck no matter what the outcome is. I am sure your fears and your husband's fears will calm down if you openly talk about things. I do not think you have to defend yourself for asking here, why would you..Good for you wanting children while your body is in the best shape for it, laters brings troubles and in my experiende one's mental stamina for parenting might be exhausted if one waits for the perfect moment later on in the future. I also think to get hired somewhere just to work a few months might not be ideal, either, it usually does dissappoint the hiring part. So, no, I have not read into your posts that you are bored and that's why you want kids.
Can you afford it? Well, getting pregnant means 9 months off contraceptives, alcohol and evenings out because you are way too tired, so some savings there
Insurance fully covers most of the cost associated with pregnancy and birth. Once the baby arrives you'll save loads of money on not eating out as much and the cost of a babysitter will put you off too. You won't be spending your free time in the pub with friends or shopping but enjoying the outdoors with your family and that's totally free.
Kisses, cuddles and spending time with your little one is all they need. I set up my first nursery for around chf 500. Stroller and baby bjorn were given to me (I was very grateful), and I was given many 2nd hand clothes and toys from the other kids in the family - I even took a suitcase full of Duplo from Australia
The monthly child allowance is chf 300 per kid here plus you get something like a 10k per kid, per year deduction from your taxable income.
Moving on to the OP's question.
If you sit down and work out whether you can afford to have kids, the answer will always be "no". But if you go ahead and have kids, somehow it works out.
Your partner either really doesn't want kids, or feels that he's not up to the job. If the latter, then - well, he may just need some persuading. Or maybe he's had the snip, or know's he's infertile and daren't tell you.
We married young - I'm 40, my kids are 18,14 and 12. One of my colleagues is over 50 and has a 5 year old and 3 year old. If you're prepared to put the work in, somehow it works out. I don't see having kids going out of fashion anytime soon!