I agree with the posters who say it is all relative. Diapers are wicked expensive, as is formula, but the family adjusts. It is a trade-off---less partying, nights out, etc, in exchange for a little person who won't return affection for months and months. It works out though, as long as the family is working on the same page.
I have to admit, I am a bit confused by posts asking if X is enough to support X. Is 65, 75, 100, 125k enough to support me, my wife and child, my army of llamas, etc.
I agree with most of the things written by Cashboy. I would like to add that maybe he doesn't want to be the only source of money for the family: himself, you and optionally one or more children.
Have you talked about children before? What was the outcome? Have you reached an agreement? Or you (and him) assumed that it will somehow work out later? If that's the case, then sorry - you are adults and should have known better. Maybe he wants "to use life" without spending money on children and "spouse at home"? Maybe he is afraid that after having a child you would stay at home "forever"?
Still if you discuss then you will probably work something out:
- have children?
- reach an agreement - i.e. 18 months for searching for a job, then children
- split and go your own ways (some people really do not want to have children and this applies both to males and females).
PS. "I really want a child" attitude suggests that you have not discussed thoroughly this issue with your partner - thus it might be most reasonable to go for the third option if discussions fail.
Money is not an issue here - because "it will always be not enough".
So... as a male who really wants children in a loving relationship I must be a... freak of nature or something?
It's OK, you are not alone. There's a few of us freaks out there...
No you're not, and you're not the only one in this planet.
In this world, it even happens that the man in the couple wants kids and the woman not!
Well i step out for a few hours and come back to some very interesting responses!
To answer a few questions then:
Yes, my partner and i have spoken about this issue countless times. When we lived in the UK, he had his reasons then for not wanting children. Now that we are in Switzerland, and i am currently not working, he is of the view that we can't afford it. My concern is that even after i find a job, there will then be another reason for why he does not want children.
I am not stupid. I know it's entirely likely that he does not want children, now or ever. But he won't admit this to me and instead, gives me practical reasons why it's not the right time.
Why did i choose to post a question regarding my private life on a public forum?
I have spoken to my friends and family about the issue, but funnily enough their views are hugely subjective and motivated by their own agendas. For example:
I've asked my Mum - 'Of course it's the right time!', she said, 'No excuses, go and have children', she told me. Well, she would say that as she wants grandchildren, doesn't she?
I've asked my close family - 'Well' they say, 'Can't say really, he's (my partner) a nice guy but well, you're not getting any younger, are you?'
I've asked my friends - Some said 'Gee bummer, what are you going to do?' Others said, 'Nah, leave him.' And yet others said, 'Are you crazy? You could raise a family of 20 on that salary!'
Hmmm, not entirely the objective, non emotional, critical and personally removed perspectives i was hoping for.
No, a public forum is not ideal either. But i haven't met (most?) of you. You are not emotionally involved. You come from different backgrounds and have different viewpoints. I would like to hear them and (possibly) learn something from them.
No, i am not going to accept what anyone says blindly. I am going to consider it, apply it to my own situation and come up with my own decision. But it's always good to have input, isn't it????
If we had that kind of money, we could raise 4 children. We've only got one now, a thinner salary, and living comfortably. It really all depends on your standard of living and expectations.
regarding his reasoning that you should get a job first and then have kids - he is probably not very aware of the maternity leaves and childcare costs here.
The statutory leave is 14 weeks. After that, if you want to keep the job, you will have to find an alternative solution for your 3 month old baby. There are few places availabe in Kinderkrippes and the prices can easily be more than 2000 per month (plus babysitter or staying home when the baby gets sick). A recommended salary for a full time nanny would be 3200 - 4800 per month. Not exactly cheap.
I don't know how much you might be earning, but you might not be that well off with all those extra costs.
Ullainga, this is really useful information as i did not know this. This has also been an argument of mine, that me finding work isn't necessarily 'the answer'.
I am well educated and left a good job with excellent career prospects in the UK to move to Switzerland with my partner. I have spent the last 12 months looking for work but sadly, to no avail.
Nonetheless, i continue to do some consultancy work for my old job back in the UK (remotely via the internet) and it is likely that this work could continue for the foreseeable future. I am also in the process of studying for an additional qualification which should help to improve my job/career prospects in Switzerland.
So, this isn't about me wanting to sit at home, have children and live off my partner's salary. Quite the opposite in fact!
I guess Ullainga's point highlights to me that finding work here in Switzerland, given the limited statutory support and in light of my ongoing ability to earn money from home, is not the be-all-and-end-all as my partner claims it to be.
With 1 child it is relatively (compared to several) easy to continue working part time even when the child is at home. My wife managed to work around 30-40% weeks, until #2 came along, by working during nap times and evenings. So you could continue top up income.
I am glad you are finding some good advice here. I would only suggest, you should really focus on what makes your partner have this attitude. It might not be the facts, and giving him factual answers might not change his position in this. Love, children, relationship, is a tricky field where other things than facts, data and practical info come to play a big role. His priorities might be different than yours, so be prepared.
If your partner says that he cant afford it, rather than thinking he's skating around the issue and letting it mess with your head (does he really want a child or not?!) - grab the bull by its balls and sit down one evening to do some serious number crunching to ascertain the truth behind that reason.
Very unromantic and practical I know. work out your living expenses, insurance, and factor in future costs of gynae, hospital, baby diapers, clothes, food, day care, nursery etc etc. 125K is a good salary and a couple can live comfortably on that here. But we are not totally privvy in to your financial situation (mortgages, debts backhome) so its best to sit down and put the numbers up front for both parties to see.
We think we know our financial situation off hand but it can be a pleasant or unpleasant surprise when you actually sit down and do some serious number crunching.
If it works out that you really can afford it, then his reason of "We cant afford it" will be shot to **** and it is time to have that talk and dig deeper as to why he doesnt want kids. Whether its a case of you needing to tighten your belts, its both your call as to whether you are willing to give up certain things to make space for a baby. Men hate not being able to provide for their family comfortably - my dad is a prime example. He worked his arse off to give our family a comfortable life and never stops even though my mum keeps telling him that he cant earn all the money in the world.
Summerrain, some very good advice.
Regarding the above, this is a point i make to him. He has never once offered to sit down and do this with me. I have made suggestions about the work i could continue to do if we did start a family, but again, he won't offer to go over the numbers with me.
This adds to my (and others) theory that the primary issue here is not money.
I just wish that he was able to be honest with himself (and me) about what the primary issue/s really was!
Hi, I know that a lot of people have given very useful input. Still i would like just to add the following:
1. Why you want to have kid at this point? Just because you are out of job? If you are 34, he is 39... and if he is still not feeling confortable to have child, maybe you should talk to him and one (either you or him) make a compromise? You dont want one day, this guy yells at you:" i did not want this child at first place, you pushed me... "
2.honestly, 125K may sound a lot. But if you deduct 25% tax ( avg). plus the expense you need for your baby sitter or kindergarten, car, flat, insurances... after all, you don't have much left. And dont forget you are away from your family. So grandparents cant even help, which means you will need extra help and ... surely not for free!
3. This brings up to the 3rd point. If you dont have enough money for hiring extra help, then you will have to stay at home be a full time mummy. Will you be ready to stay home for the next 3, 5 years? Then do you ever plan how to go back to your career ?
Good luck!
Well, you are the other half in the partnership. If the issue of having a child and wondering if he has some other hidden reasons is driving you bananas, be firm about making the talk happen. You have every right to be in the know about the numbers in the partnership.
I say enough speculating and deal with it pronto. Sorry if this comes across as a highly confrontational / aggressive approach but from personal experience, issues escalate out of control (swept under the carpet, one party internalises over time) because no one really wants to grab it by the balls and deal with it.
But do make a nice dinner and pop open a bottle of wine. Makes the balls grabbing a little less tense
I can assure you, it's plenty, but you might want to get the child earning 2 salaries to make it comfortable
Hi Bluesky. Again, good points. I will answer them below:
1. I have wanted to start a family for a number of years now, even when i was working full time. But my partner has always said it wasn't the right time, for x, y or z reason.
For me, i feel the issue is coming to a critical point, and possibly one in which i might have to decide to walk away from the relationship.
I definitely don't want my partner to one day resent me for 'pushing' him into having a child. But similarly, i don't want to be in a relationship where i resent my partner for not being honest with me about his reasons for not wanting a child.
If he doesn't want children, then he should say so. At least this way we can both make informed and adult decisions about whether we continue our relationship or end it.
2. You are absolutely correct. I know how easily money gets eaten here in Switzerland. I don't want to live a fancy life. Nor do i want to live on the bread line. But all i want to know is 'Is it do-able'? And the feedback i am getting, in addition to my own common sense, is that 'yes' it is.
3. I mentioned in a previous post that i have the ability to work for myself, if i chose to go down that path. So it could be possible for me to continue earning an income (perhaps not as stable or as large as a full time permanent job) while i raised the child/ren.
The point is, i am willing to make the sacrifices needed in order to have children.
Thanks Summerrain.
I agree, enough speculating and time for action. In the past, we have both ignored the issue and, as you said, swept it under the carpet. But it's at the point now where i am becoming increasingly unhappy, so i know i have to do something.
As for the ball grabbing? Well, i was never so good at being gentle
You are most welcomed. It may really be the finances thats the issue and you're getting your knickers in a twist over nothing. The next logical step is how to improve the financial situation to provide for a child. If not, some tough decisions to make and difficult talks ahead.
Either way, good luck.
ps: i hope your ball grabbing was metophorically speaking. Mine was
kimba1 : if i understand well from your past posts... actually now key is to have a decent talk with your partner. You know, at end money is not an issue, at least not here. I think both"rich" and "poor" people can afford to have children!
Meanwhile pls also remember, you may think that there are many reasons for someone who wants to have a child. But for someone who doens't want to have a child, there is only one reason: just doesn't want! All the others are not defined as reasons but explanations or justifications.
PS. someone wants/doesnt want to have kids with you, has nothing to do with how much he loves you!