CDL expired, now asking for C permit

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
1
Hi everyone !

After spending a couple months browsing the threads, I think it’s time for me to create a new one about my particular situation.

I am a non-EU national, and I came to Switzerland in 2013 with my family, because my dad got a job in a specialized UN agency. I was given a CDL as a family member of an international civil servant. At that time, I was 16 years old, I attended regular (not international) school in canton Vaud, and now I’m pursuing my studies at EPFL.

As you may know, CDL for children are only valid until reaching 25 years old, and as some of you may know, a C permit can be granted after 12 years spent on CDL for children. However, I turned 25 in April 2022, only 9 years after entering Switzerland.

A couple weeks before I turn 25, I was contacted by the DFAE, and they told me to apply for a regular residence permit at cantonal authorities. So, I searched a little bit, and found out in the SPOP website that “at the child's express request and depending on his or her particular situation, a C permit may be issued” without specifying the 12 years condition. So, I wrote to the SPOP early April, and I genuinely told them that I wanted a C permit.

Two months passed and I got no answer. I started worrying, so I searched carefully in DFAE Ordonnance (OLEH) and SEM LEI directives, and it was not written anywhere that I have the right for a C permit if I have spent less than 12 years in Switzerland. It was also specified that the ordinary regime of 10 years or fast track 5 years doesn’t apply to CDL holders . So, I was prepared to be denied the C permit by the SPOP, and be given a student or a regular B.

However, to my greatest surprise, I received a letter from SPOP mid-July. They didn’t deny my application, but they were asking for some extra documentation, from which an A2/A1 French certificate, which correspond to the C permit requirement ! I sent them everything a couple days later, and since then I have not received any news.

Can a canton choose on its own to give me a C permit, and then submit it to SEM for approval, even though it is not explicitly written in the SEM directives ?

Do you know someone who was in the same situation as me, and who was awarded a C permit ?

Thanks in advance for your replies !

2
Permits are a cantonal matter. SEM has a role but they don’t write the rules.

3
The immigration rules are federal ones and SEM does check if the cantons follow the federal rules. The federal rules give the cantons some leeway do not grant a permit. However, if they grant a permit the federal rules ca not be violated. Hence, why you can always read on similar permit C threads that the permit application is processed in Bern by SEM.

EU citizens have no preferences regarding permit C.

However citizen of certain EU and certain Non-EU countries have preferences based on agreements ad treaties between those individual countries and Switzerland. In particular this applies to citizens from the USA, Canada, and the UK plus the EFTA countries plus the European micro states and bunch of EU countries (but not all!). Which can get C after 5 years. This also applies to children's of diplomats.

PS: Time on legitimation card count s fully towards citizenship.

4
Also, while it's true that most permits are evaluated and granted chiefly by the canton and only reviewed for conformity by the SEM, that is not true of C permits, which are tied to federal requirements and not cantonal ones. C permit requests are decided by the SEM, not by the canton. At least that's what my cantonal migration office has told me.

5
Thanks for your replies.

Yes, I should have been more precise : I am non-EU/EFTA, and I do not come from a country with which Switzerland has any kind of C permit agreement.

Actually, as soon as I get my C permit, I will be directly eligible to apply for CH citizenship.

So, I should be prepared for a scenario where SPOP approves and SEM denies ? This would be a (not so) funny situation, because through this forum, I've never seen SEM denying anything in any of the threads I’ve read.

6
Unless you are a spy or a terrorist you likely have nothing to worry about.

7

Denial by SEM is rare as the cantons usually follow the federal rules. In your case, I think they could give you a permit B as well. See SEM directives chapter 7.2.6.2 https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/fr/home…erbereich.html

PS: did you submit a French certificate for A2/A1 only or a better one?

8
Is trying to find the exact recipe of Rivella considered spying ?

Maybe they aren't that familiar with CDLs in Vaud (compared to Geneva), so they treated my request as if I was a B permit holder ?

Actually I submitted my "certificat de maturité gymnasiale". Apparently, according to the FIDE website, a diploma from a Swiss gymnase exempts you from providing a FIDE certificate

9
I wish you luck, OP! I think the fact that the canton accepted is a very, very good sign.

When we were applying for early C, both my husband and I enclosed our language certificates; my then 7 year old just needed proof of being in a German-language primary school. Even for citizenship, she needed proof of having attended German-language school for at least 5 years, so you're definitely good on language.

10
Likewise for our son but for french. Five or more years in local school fulfils the language criteria.

11
I can confirm, cantons outside GE, generally have no clue what a CDL is when they come across one. The conversations I've had in both Lausanne and Neuchatel to try and explain what those little cards are... I could write a book.

As mentioned above by a fellow forum member, it might be the case that they give you a B permit first, with a view to graduating to C.

12
Thanks for your replies, I have some news !

Today I officially received the approval from the canton ! The person who was in charge of my case was very competent. Actually, it seems that she is familiar dealing with legitimation cards.

From what I’ve understood, the 12 years limit for C only applies to the case where the main CDL holder (i.e. my father) leaves Switzerland or if the family is dissolved. In the other cases, there is technically no minimum requirement of years spent in CH, but the analysis is done on a case by case basis, both by cantonal authorities and SEM. However, if someone goes for a C only after 3 years for example, I think that there are big chances of denial.

So, those were today’s news, now waiting for Bern’s decision !

13

In Vaud, particularly on La Côte, the authorities are well aware of CdL and deal with them everyday.

14
Hello,

Ive been in CH since 2013 starting at the age of 9 and also live in vaud.

I checked the law and some sites said that it is not possible for children under 21 who have been in CH for 12 years to get a C permit since they did not fill the length requirement.

OP said the 12 year-rule was for the principal benificiary but it says that rule under children of CDL holders.

That would mean that I have stayed for 9 years, can I apply??

Would you mind telling me who you contacted or where/how you applied please?

I hear the SPOP especially for vaud rarely communicate back and their phone numbers dont work.

I went awhile back to the commune but they said to contact the SPOP.

Do i have to wait until my 10th year (since i assume thats the regular time for non cdl holders)

How long was the processing time for your C permit in general?

Im well integrated and have a maturité fédérale diploma.

15
Hi, you seem to be in the same situation as me, I will try to answer all your questions.

I didn't say that the 12 years rule apply to the main holder, I said that it applies to children, when the main holder leaves Switzerland, when he dies, or when there is a divorce, sorry if it wasn't clear.

And yes, apparently you cannot apply for a C if you are less than 21 years, according to the federal directives 7.2.6.2, first paragraph.

I applied through the contrôle des habitants of my commune at first. Approximately two weeks later, I sent a letter to SPOP, where I wrote that I wanted a C permit, with a motivation letter. I called SPOP a week later to make sure that they have received my letter.

You are right, they are very hard to contact ! However, I found a tip: I have a feature in my phone, that automatically calls back when the phone hangs. So, each time I wanted to speak to them, I just called, and the phone keeps calling again and again until someone picks up the phone. The max number of attempts was 107, but in average I'd say it was around 30-40 attempts.

I didn't get the full approval yet, but it took 5 months for the canton to give a "préavis positif", and I'm waiting for SEM's decision. According to some other threads, SEM's approval can take from two weeks to 3-4 months, it really depends on the cases.

16
The key word as you mentioned is 'Case by case basis'.

In many stories from various friends/colleagues over the years, this is always the case.

We used to spend on permit renewal every year. In one story, we heard that just mentioning a statement requesting to give a longer validity term in the Ausweis renewal form (as we hold permanent jobs) helps. We wrote one sentence in german and got 2 years validity!

17
I believe this has changed and no longer there.

18

UPDATE : I am officially a permanent resident

The 23rd , I received a letter from SEM (which is quite uncommon for permit stuff). They recalled that this is a “dérogation aux conditions d’admission”, but they gave their approval for SPOP’s decision, using article 30 alinéa 1 let b from LEI, and the first paragraph of the federal directive 7.2.6.2.

The 24th , I received a convocation to do the biometrics.

The 26th , I did the biometrics in Lausanne.

Today, I received my C by registered mail !

So in total, it took 5 months for SPOP acceptation, and 3 weeks for SEM approval.

My adventure in this forum is not over, but will soon continue in the thread “Normal naturalisation - applicant diary”

Thank y’all for your replies !

EDIT : I just checked, it still counts : https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/fr/home…tml#1867678717

19
Yes. This. I’ve yet to come across anyone who’s needed my ID not recognize my CDL.

Even the cashiers at the supermarkets on the French side of the border know them when I need to sign for something.

20

First of all, congratulations!

They probably did not updated the website, because I clearly remember email being sent in organisation giving notice to hurry up because the law was going to change.

not official source, but it covers the case - https://www.legalexpat.ch/holding-a-…-swiss-permit/

Before 2018, any Cdl or Ci holder could apply for Swiss citizenship after 12 years of residency in Switzerland, if they met the language and integration requirements.

From January 2018, only C permit holders can apply for citizenship (art. 9 al. 1 LN). In the practice, switching from a Cdl to a C permit is not feasible except in some specific cases.