Child behaviour and discipline. How do you do it?

this message is too short

But that's the whole point. You tell them in simple terms why they are sitting there, leave them to think about it (and why they are no longer playing with the trainset/watching the telly/poking the cat in the bum) then when you come back to them 2 minutes later, you repeat with "You know why you had to sit there, don't you?"

Child makes primitive conclusion "If I poke the cat again, I wind up on the naughty chair." Usually takes more than one occasion but eventually they make the connection.

My son even makes daddy sit on the naughty chair for doing bad stuff (usually accidentally, poor bugger) but from this it is obvious he has made the association that naughty stuff needs to be dealt with and thought about.

For the benefit of 22 yards - that's not me...

I am not a fan of the time-out, and even though you can not reason with a toddler, you can explain things. Kids' intelligence is understimated by many people and by explaining and staying calm but firm in all situations you also set a good example for dealing with conflicts in later life. When my almost 13 year old freaks out the moment I address him I simply say: I am talking to you in a normal tone, so would you please do the same with me instead of yelling? It works

...until he/she gets older and understands that he/she outgrew the naughty chair...what are you going to do then?

There's a BIG difference between a 13-year-old and a toddler! Time-outs work for toddlers. They don't for teenagers.

Something else. See above.

As 22 yards pointed out in the post above, by then you should be reasoning with your child. If not, you have other more serious problems. The points you made in your first post re boundaries are very true - but I am guessing that the children you had under your care were not toddlers.

The naughty chair is a "cause and effect" lesson for children that you cannot reason with, i.e. not because they are badly behaved but because their brains are not developed enough - and this is not saying they are not intelligent.

It does not mean, as has been implied/said in posts above, that you do not explain things or talk to the child. On the contrary it is the physical part of the "punishment". The verbal part is the explanation that goes with punishment at the begining and end (of said time out). After a timeout we only let the child join in again once they have explained why they had the time out in the first place.

At home it's quite easy - time out is really effective, as most young children are devastated to be sent away from the action, and as they get a little older you can even make it pre-emptive: 'I think you're getting a bit silly now, and suggest spending a bit of quiet time in your room...' Oddly enough, my son often used to agree, and take himself for an hour of Lego-ing. Bliss... It helps to think of it perhaps less of a punishment, particularly for very small children, and more of a reset button. Frankly, I didn't care or even think it was very likely that my 3 yr old was reflecting on the error of his ways, although we still had the 'you've been sent to your room because... , now say sorry...' conversations. We had a few minutes apart, and that was enough for us all to be friends again.

When you're out, it's all in the preparation. For necessary shopping (and you really don't want to take multiple small kids on unnecessary shopping) work around nap and snack schedules, always carry snacks, don't expect to shop for more than half an hour, explain exactly what's going to happen and where you're going to go, so the kid can see that this dull adult purgatory definitely has an end to it.

For meals out, it gets MUCH easier once everyone at the table can hold a pencil. Mine get a shiny new notepad each time we go out for a meal, or need to take a train/plane trip; that and a pencil case with felt tips, ruler, scissors, etc, does the job every time. Expect to have to offer full-on entertainment for periods of time - in your best over-enthusiastic children's TV presenter voice: 'Come on kids! Let's play... Mirror People!' (face each other, one moves, the other copies in a mirror image - I have some books full of ideas like this). You'll do stuff like this in airport lounges all the time.

The aim is to the family that all the other kids are looking at jealously, wishing their parents weren't snapping at them just for breathing.

Once they're around 5, they respond very well to giving them your full attention for a period of time, then explaining that now it's Mummy's turn to read and rest for a while, so here's your iPod (audiobooks on iPods, that's my other great travel tip, as mine both throw up if they read in cars). It's best to outline this deal up front.

Kids are mostly quite reasonable as long as they're well rested, the food's regular and they feel they're getting a fair share of whatever attention's going. Once they're old enough to appreciate that Mummy/Daddy is an actual person, with plans and desires of their own, then you're golden.

kodokan

For the Op, none of your 3 options (modern techniques) fits us (3 kids btw)

We have always used regular and consistent discipline. By this I mean setting clear and defined boundaries with clerly defined consequenes for unacceptable behaviour. Basically this starts with a verbal warning but with increasing consequences should the bad behaviour continue. Once the child knows the relationship, this generally gets easier as only the 'mention' of the consequence results in the desired change in behaviour.

What I have found quite astonishing in today's society is the number of parents who just do not do discipline at all, or who disagree on the discipline technique and this resulting in lowest common denominator, ie. nil or none.

By the way, I don't think many of today's parents are any worse for wear based on the discipline techniques used in the past by their parents, be that the shoe, spoon, or in my case the belt.

I am all for bringing discipline back into society, and I don't think there should be any taboos for basic discipline. But it is important that the parents decide what is appropriate for them and their circumstances, and that they agree on it upfront (ie. before kids).

Tazers. Never fail.

on you or them?

Oh, it's tons easier with older kids (mine are 6 and 10). With little kids, the consequence has to be immediate, else it slips their goldfish memory and they have NO idea why they don't get pudding 6 hours later.

With my 10 year, who can hold a thought in his head for weeks, it mostly now revolves around the granting of additional pre-bed time, and the addition/removal of pocket money.

I don't have teenagers yet, though - perhaps it gets more complicated then. I'm hoping I'll have laid enough 'mutual respect' groundwork to get us through the worst of it.

kodokan

Paddy, you cracked me up for a good two minutes, I was first picturing the student in Florida shouting out

"Don't Taze me bro!"

and then pictured something else very inappropriate. Maybe I'm not ready to be a dad

For all those who say "reason with toddlers" - many of them know they're doing wrong and do it anyway. My cousin's three year old son who is huge for his age thinks it's amusing to kick people. Last time we saw him he was rolling on the floor flailing his legs and missing us by inches. I said to my cousin "if he kicks my girlfriend I'm going to discipline him myself so please remove him" which he did with a stricken look on his face. To be honest I'm not sure what I would have done to discipline him but I'd be interested to hear what non-violent measures parents would have taken (if they'd been the parent of course)

The good old 'reward the good, ignore the bad' ploy. Child rolls on floor, lashing out with feet = child is removed to naughty step/ own room/ etc, told in a very bored voice with no eye contact that he can come back when he's fit to be in society (but in toddler language). Repeat until it works. It will, but it might take hours; it's MUCH easier to nip this when they're much younger.

And for all those who say 'but s/he just won't stay on the naughty step', have a read of 'Toddler Taming' - I'm with Dr Green on the notion of tying the bedroom door shut as a last resort to enforcing parental discipline. After you've been reasonable and explained patiently, there sometimes comes a point when polite manners fail, and you win because you're bigger and stronger. And before every gets all faux-shocked, I don't believe there's a parent alive who hasn't at some point picked their child up and carried them protesting from a toy shop, physically stopped them flinging themselves in river full of interesting fish, etc. We're winning wars here, people, not battles. Sometimes we have to cheat in order to hit the long-term goal. (Edit: but of course I'm not advocating imprisonment for tiny kids who've got a bit low blood-sugarish and over-reacted to something; just for older kids, 3-4-5 perhaps, who are aware of exactly what they're doing and have made a conscious decision to act that way to press the button.)

Then the second part of this is the very second he is in the room with the visitors, standing upright, behaving, he gets a lot of hugs, attention and is generally made to feel good about himself. But this has to be really quickly acted on - it's no use waiting half an hour or sometimes even a few minutes, and expecting him to maintain the behaviour with no 'scaffolding'.

And don't expect results from this quickly - it could be weeks, if not months. But if a parent can't control a 3 yr old, then they don't stand a chance with older kids.

kodokan

I'd say if he kicked me, I'd kick him back with moderate force. I could also say that I would be able to play this game for longer than he could.

Failing that, I'd wrap him in cling wrap. Strapped to a chair.

I know there is a big difference - but my now close to 13-year-old was a toddler once and it worked just fine to explain things to him. e.g. we don't run around in public places and scream like in a frantic because we are not alone and other people might be disturbed.

Good for you & lucky you.

Breaking news: not all children are the same and respond to the same stimulus. For some a simple word will do (if you have children like that, count your blessings). For others the time out or other methods are needed.

Just "telling" our children isn't always enough. Sometimes it is - great - other times it isn't.

Out of curiosity, how many children do you have?

I think it's sad that you haven't had kids yet but are already thinking about how best to discipline them. Your children will be completely different to everyone elses, with unique and wonderful personalities. Rather than thinking of them as opponents ready to fight battles with, think of them as little human beings who need to be guided and helped through the minefield of social correctness. It won't always be easy but they are not born 'all knowing' evil little creatures that a lot of people seem to think they are! They are testing the limits and as long as you are consistent and fair you should be fine.

As someone who loathed 'other people's children' the day my first child was born changed all that. If you listen to those that say it's nothing but hard work, they're a nuisance, there will be terrible 2's, the teenage years are a nightmare, etc., etc., etc., then it will be. I've loved 'nearly' every minute of being a parent (ages 12-15 can be challenging but not all the time!) and never saw mine as people I had to dominate and get the better of. You are the adult, you set the example, the guidelines and the limits. If you go into it 'battle ready' you'll find opponents.

Thanks for this, you sound like a good parent. I especially liked the "bored voice" thing which I imagine would be very effective.