Child behaviour and discipline. How do you do it?

Thanks, that's nice - I do my best. Most days. 'Disinterested robot with only one programmed phrase' is the aim here.

My other great tip is to combine almost total consistency with very rare flashes of off-the-wall irrationality. You won't believe how much this keeps them on their toes. For example, one time my son (around 5-6 at the time) was going on and on about having some sweets that had accidentally been donated to the house. After a day or two of this, I got bored with the whole 10 minutes escalation of 'No, you've had your quota for this week... Please don't ask again else there'll be none at the weekend either... THAT'S ENOUGH ABOUT THE **** SWEETS!'

So the next time he asked, I calmly stood up, walked across to the cupboard, took down the tub, walked over to the back door, opened it, tossed the whole tub in the rubbish bin, walked back to the table, sat down, carried on sipping my tea. All. Without. Saying. A. Word.

The children were totally silent for the remainder of the meal. And totally angelic for the remainder of the evening. And for some days afterwards. Because *whisper* 'Mummy's lost it, and who knows what could happen now..?'

But save it for once every couple of years, to get the full stunned effect.

kodokan

When my wife was pregnant we discussed this subject often. I would simply show her this:

Thickest, baddest belt I've ever found .

Once our little one was born I put it to very good use... holding up my growing beer gut .

I'm sure there's a lot of good advice in this thread- just make sure you don't discipline (whatever your method) in anger.

Funny, my 18 months old is not disciplined ''yet'' on the naughty step. But when I get angry or if she hurts me, she will comes to me to give or get a hug and a kiss.... and the world is beautiful again!

im still affraid of my dad.

Got some serious slapping. Turned out just fine though ( I think)

I think I will do same....we'll see maybe yes maybe no.

Oh and im getting a nanny for sure.

Thats what my rents did (cause they worked)

Dear OP,

Your question is a very understandable one, especially that – unlike products you buy in shops – once you have kids, you cannot return them and get your money back

Therefore, it is important to make a decision with a true conviction, such as having a deep wish of having a family with 1,2 or more kids.

However, your concerns seem to be on having a peaceful happy life with them. I’ll try answering using my experience with the 4 kids I had the pleasure to raise:

- Discipline:

I learned that raising kids start by teaching yourself. Trust me, being a parent is a school. For example, If you are not a consistent person, you will soon find out how imperative it is to learn this virtue.

- Humiliating situation:

I learned there is no way around publicly humiliating situations (like kid lying on floor of a Store or screaming in Restaurant). Yet, how parents react to it makes a huge difference. If you opt the right attitude, they’ll most probably not repeat it (I can tell many – funny - stories about this one!... )

- Holidays:

I learned that happy holidays are by far those with my kids. Even when I had no time to read more then 2 pages in my book!

Most importantly is for parents to have the same attitude raising kids. If your rules are in contradiction with your wife’s rules, children could – and certainly will – use that opportunity to get to their goals

Agreed.

Two different ones and it worked with them both. I think it has a lot to do with you as a person. I am somebody who hardly ever loses temper and stays calm, whatever happens, for I believe freaking out doesn't help anything and the situation definitely grows worse instead of better. e.g. Your hormone-stricken teenager shouts at you, you shout back, she shouts even more and so on... situation hopeless.

Your toddler makes a scene in the store because she wants some chocolate, you shout, she cries and screams even louder......we all have seen scenes like that. The solution is of course not to give in and buy the chocolate - but explain that she's not going to get it because of whatever reason. Believe, my kids knew after trying it once or twice that it was useless and gave up on it.

This is so true. I've found this with my own kids that consciously lowering my voice to the point it can barely be heard really helps to keep a lid on the situation, and I've seen how my daughter's enfantine teacher uses exactly the same method to get the attention of 18 kids at once.

Nice to know it should still work with teens.

kodokan

All I can say is count your blessings

I know level-headed people who have discipline/control issues with their children.

I know - for want of a better term - emotional people who don't have discipline/control issues with their children.

My experience (3 children but not as old as yours) is that keeping your cool is much harder when there is an emotive issue at stake. Keeping your cool during a tantrum is "easy" (note use of quote marks!). Keeping your cool when a child's health is at stake is much harder and ill-discipline (no pun intended) is the cause of the stress.

I guess what frustrated me in your post is the implication (or maybe my inference) that one style of parenting fits all. I just do not and cannot agree.

Ah... would love for you to do that with mine and check reactions....

She is 17 months almost and if she screams and I say "Shhh we do not scream" she looks at me, laughs and screams again

Same with prett ymuch anything... and only now the stern face, walking away when she behaves like that or ignoring her seems to start working...

I agree with the reasoning, totally but it is really for older toddlers (i.e. after 2ish?) who can understand what you are going on about

K

Im not going to offer any more advice I think the options given just about cover it, every child is different and every parent finds their own way

I just wanted to say when you decide to have children you dont suddenly have a toddler on your hands, you have a baby which (hopefully) sleeps alot,poops coo's a little and generally makes you feel proud as punch that you have managed to make this miracle.

All the behaviour that needs to be reasoned with/disciplined or shushed in public places comes gradually as they get older, which in that time you have got to know your own child,you know whats effective and the behaviour you expect of them. Most parents become far more excepting of certain behaviour and that of other children.

Sometimes mine listen sometimes they dont but eventually the get it, Often im embarrassed in a public place and feel like a bad parent and sometimes I just dont care what strangers think.

That said if you really dont want any children and your other half wants 3 this is the least of your worries

Forget all the above, the solution lies in this post:

http://www.englishforum.ch/719092-post11.html

Thanks for all the advice, it's not so much that I don't want kids (perhaps I was too subtle in my humour) it's more that I am scared senseless of being a rubbish parent.

My other half and I are very happy together, thank you very much.

As I wrote on the smacking for success forum: We have found a mix of a few different techniques works well. Smacking is better on the hand or bottom for the younger ones for things like safety (trying to touch power, run out onto the road etc) and then we used the naughty corner for a while, but, our little guys (aged 5 and 3) worked out quite quickly they could do something that was clearly wrong and then contentedly take themselves straight to the naughty corner. SO, back to smacking it was (just for discpline and not out of frustration)! We also take their toys and put them in time out if they fight over them and this works to. Overally, they are great little guys who have their moments but by and large, we can take them pretty much anywhere with us and be proud of them. I really know we have succeeded when they reach 25 without going to jail or anything like that!

We have two boys and were seriously considering having a third but several friends suggested that as parents, we are only have two eyes and two hands for a reason and three really upsets that balance!!

My other half was of the same thinking - totally put off kids, not because of them but feeling like he wouldn't cope and he would be a bad farther.

Our first was an accident so his decision was taken out out of his hands, and from the day she was born he has been the best farther,and keeps a much cooler head then me in times of stressful public tantrums

Being scared is absolutely normal. At the end of the day it does not matter if you have one or three, it is not the quantity that matters, but the method, and that - as with anything - must be the same, either for one, or for three kids. I don't think three is that much more work in terms of disciplining, by the time you have the third, you will have graduated at the parenting university, haha...

Disciplining tots and teens seems to be the same, at least for me, it's fun to teach teens, I love it.. Dignity, kindness, being firm but open to explain. I was never a fan of time-outs, it does not teach anything, just deters. I am missing the positive bit in that tool. What has worked for us is being consistent, explain explain explain, and - oh bless those - natural consequences.

Ie - a child screams to get something, there is no way she gets it, we leave the store. A child hits a playdate (mommy, ...), playdate leaves. A toy flies on the wall, a toy gets some good time with mommy who is so sorry the toy got hurt and pets it and puts it away to safety for a while (loooong while). Some food flies on the floor, if that is repeated (I don't like having a hungry tot around), food goes back to the fridge. Stomping and other "fresh" attitudes don't get tolerated, if we plan a fun outing, we stay in until the unwanted behavior calms down. We say no, thank you, yes, please, hello, good bye, we shake hands, we wave good bye and are civil to people.

It was a pain the butt to be consistent with these, especially if one has a non verbal kid for a long time, frustrated, learning too much at the same time, the terrible twos are challenging..But it worked. You have to get on the level of the child, speak calmly, eyes on the same level as hers, and explain what happens if the bad behavior keeps going. Keep your emotions out of it. You have to get off your butt and not yell comands to your child from a distance, wondering why your tot is uninterested. Physical presence and talk works wonders, light touch on the shoulder reminds her we are in it together. Same as after a talk, if the offense was not too bad, it's good to hug or check "now we are good?", my daughter likes that. Giving plenty of choices for them to play with, when things are not so important, works really well too, keeps them happy they do have control over their lives at least a bit (activities, food, clothes, friends, places to go, toys...). If one abuses the "no", hits or over uses restrictive socially isolating methods like time-outs, that's pretty much the end stop and nowhere from there.

I really thought about different ways, I thought about why we as parents discipline and this always made the best sense to me, kids won't have the cop/parents around all the time to reinforce the threat of being hit or put into a time out. We need to teach them how to make wise choices on their own, without us being too controlling, they should want to abstain from being bad not because they will be put into prison if they do something bad but because the consequences that their negative behavior might have on other people.

I second the cheerful, creative and loving attitude of positive parenting, rather than a patronising power game "I am the parent, I always know better". Big bull.

Kodokan, I love your input.

Super Nanny says one minute for every year of a child's age failing that a few shocks from a cattle prod will do the trick.

Ah, that's the problem, you see - the same method often doesn't work for more than one child, and then you have to find a new method. If I'd just had my daughter (who's been a perfect Stepford Child since she was born), I would be reading this thread in bemusement that any of this was necessary. You just ask them not to do it, don't you? And they say OK, Mummy, and stop, don't they?

But I've also got my son. Who's a sweet, lovely child, but whose attitude to the world is 'Look at me, at meeeeee!' interspersed with 'But why is X like that, and what if it wasn't, and how about if Y happened instead, and...' (which is of course just a variant on 'look at me'). My daughter is placid and accepting, a truly peaceful child to be around, and one that daily reinforces what a fantastic parent I am. My son daily makes me question how I can possibly keep up with his ever more complex questions, and keep two thought steps ahead of his drillingly logical brain, to make sure we don't inadvertently agree to something through too many double negative statements or some such. With him, I question my parenting skills constantly, as he requires more careful handling (under which he blossoms).

I suppose overall my daughter moulds herself to the world, whilst my son is battling to reshape the world to his desires. Fortunately now he does this through negotiation and tactics, but when he was small he displayed the same desire without speech. Every minute of every day. Which was when I learnt that time outs are mostly NOT punishment, or training, or an opportunity for repentance. They are to stop parents saying or doing something to their children that they'll regret once it's all simmered down.

LOVE your list of natural consequences, especially the poor injured toy. But - devil's advocate here - back to the kicking boy mentioned above, a natural consequence is that he should get a good one back?

Also very true - even your average 1 yr old can tell the difference between The False No, where the parent's sitting on the sofa saying 'No, Little X, don't touch that... I said no.. put it down... I'm counting to 3, 1..2...' and The Real No, which is where Little X is about to pull the hot pan on themselves, and results in the parent flying across the kitchen, pulling them away sharply and yelling 'NOOO!' It's very important that there's only ever 'No', not 'No...ish'. If that seems impossible, have a good think about what you're saying No to, and decide if it actually matters, because if it does, then mean it!

And one more idea to toss into the communal thread pot is Video Rewind. Little kids of about 3-5 often back themselves into behaviour situations that they're not quite sure how to get out of, and end up digging themselves further and further in until there's no option for the parent but punishment. Before it got to that stage, I sometimes used to say: 'I don't think you meant to throw your shoe across the room, did you? *mute look of desperation* Let's try rewinding that bit, and doing it again... so, let's see, I'd just asked you to put your shoes on *walk back to the door and say in 'stage' voice* 'Time to put your shoes on for playgroup', and you were, let me see, where were you, oh that's right, in the living room, so you go back there, and then...' The child gets super involved in recreating the scene and having a 'do over' - they mostly do want to be good and get approval, really, and this allows them to do it without losing face.

Oh, and one last thing - I always give mine countdowns over the course of 5-10 mins, to give them time to come around to the idea of putting down the toys/ turning off the TV, etc. A child already reconciled to the idea is much more biddable.

Thank you. And luckily, as it seems I just can't stop airing my opinions on this!

kodokan

Parents you have to listen to Russell ...

One day I will learn how to multiquote a post, haha...

I totally agree with different approach to different children, since they do have different needs, etc. What I was thinking was a dif thing - that was from another parenting board when we discussed similar stuff, a few parents said they have a kid that needs to be hit while the other does not, which was weird for me. That's more what I had in mind when I was thinking about a method. I meant, there should be rules, the same for the kids. Not doubble standards, nor for the folks either, pretty much.

If time outs are for parents, then let them parents sit in the kitchen for a while while they collect themselves... A kid put on a time out chair in isolation and being told off is something different than saying "let's all calm down a bit" which is honestly absolutely necessary at times ( I felt so many times like sticking my head into frigo for a while). I slowly wipe my kid's face with a cold wet washcloth and go open window in the kitchen to feel the air. I completely agree with the intensity some sticky situations escalate into and how hard it is to control oneself. I don't usually have troubles with that, but what I have difficulty with is to stay matter of fact and not laugh, that's the worst. The drama voice works the best, I found out, helps me not to giggle.

As for the kicking boy, it is a tough one. Since we teach not to hit, hitting back wouldn't work. But saying this boy is having a bad day let's leave him alone and see him when he is having a better day might actually work, at least as an example for my kid, if she was the one who got kicked. I used this a couple of times with parents who didn't give a damn their child is being abusive to other children, they didn't feel like they should do something about it. The word "aggressive" travels well in the playground, in engl and in french, the folks usually got the message.

Now, since I found groups of kids and creches here way more intense and aggresive than back home, to completely teach no hitting is tricky, since my kid gets pushed, hit, kicked etc. quite often in public places where there are a ton of kids. So, I told her if there is an aggressive anyone (hitting, snatching toys, or being in her face), just push him/her away from your personal space and go to the adult. Seems to make her a lot more confident with children now, she isn't afraid of them anymore.

I kind of get what you are saying but

Children are not on an equal level with parents. We may want to treat them equally and most of the time we can. But sometimes, especially as children, they need to understand who is in charge. I think sometimes this is forgotten in todays more liberal societies.

There will be times when you have children that you need their absolute obedience and not agreement.

That said there are times when at home when my wife hands over to me and says "you deal with it I'm loosing it" - a kind of time out if you will.

This was one of those tricky moments last w/end. My oldest was in a line of children (2 others - a brother and sister). The brother was slightly older, the sister younger than my boy. They were queueing for a death slide on a platform about 1.5 m high. Older boy pushes in front of my son after having been told not to do so by his father. So my son pushed back and tells him it is not his turn (in German! ).

All ok, you might say, but he pushed the other older and bigger boy off the platform! Now the boy's father came and told his son off and didn't think my boy had behaved badly, so I was busy trying to explain that while it was good that he had stood up for himself, pushing the boy off the platform was not good... Ah the joys of parenting.