So, I saw this was discussed in the past (but posts are pretty old), so situation :
Might change jobs soon, with one that will take more time from me and will probably need someone to do a general clean (once per week probably) of the apartment.
I saw there are a lot of companies offering these services / but also some private ppl on different platforms (and yes, the price is always one of the decisive factors)
So, how does this work, in the scenario I get someone privately :
Pay by Twint / cash I guess …
Supplies and vacuum/ mop / etc ? Mine or not ??
How much do you usually pay [yes I would like to know the market prices]? I guess it is per hour / or sqm ??
I would try to go private because of the language … I saw a lot of companies that offer these services , but in German … usually companies that have EN speaking staff … do charge “extra” for this (happened the same when I searched for accountants to do my taxes)
If you go private you have to insure the person, pay social-costs (AHV, IV etc.), register them accordingly …
And now you know why companies are more expensive, they safe you a lot of hassle, legal procedures etc.
I don’t know the prices, they’re usually by the hour.
I am sure that most ppl that search and offer these services, let’s say on Facebook do not declare anything … and it’s fine … I saw that most ppl ask for recommandations and honestly for 1/2 hours of work … I would think it’s to much of a bother … so let’s go on the thread that no one declares anything…
LE : I could give you a similar example of dog sitters that charge XXX for taking care of your pet and no one bothers to declare anything
No it isn’t ’fine’. The employees are denied social benefits, AVS and may be uninsured. You are personally liable for any injury and you are breaking the law.
Paying people on the black may look attractive but it can come back and bite you.
Using a company has advantages as well. If you cleaner leaves they replace them, if you cleaner goes on holiday they replace them. If your cleaner gets sick they will replace them. They are paid a living wage.
If you get caught employing somebody on the black the fines are huge and you never know who might report you to the authorities.
A friend of a friend was fined 10000 chf in Zurich for using a non declared cleaner.
Only judge them after a couple of months… sounds like good advice regarding the average banker or lawyer or IT person or…
If you need a cleaner for the average Swiss flat, OK that is your choice but realise that first, it is not as socially acceptable as in some other countries and secondly that the people cleaning are in need of the money and are not well paid.
I don’t get why it would not be socially acceptable … it’s a normal job / nothing degrading …
And yeah … I am thinking you might find somebody struggling financially and can help out
Its a cultural thing. Traditionally only the very rich had large enough houses that needed a lot of upkeep. Swiss flats are small and the wife was expected to keep them spic and span. Times change . Robo-cleaners are my life saver, personally I would not like the loss of privacy and do not like somebody tidying up after me, however necessary it might be
I don’t know any Swiss-Swiss who has employed a cleaning lady. (at most maybe occasionally, but not someone who comes every week to clean your house)
Foreigners on the other hand…
I think you are missing the point. You asked a question. The answer was that employing someone legally or not has advantages and disadvantages for all concerned. If you go the illegal route, you should be aware of how that is viewed by the locals. Your personal cleaning and hygiene habits are really your own affair.
I think he meant that - it’s strictly your business if you want to delegate the job of cleaning your house to another person outside your household, but you should be aware that hiring someone illegally is disapproved by the locals…(and the authorities, I would have added)
(or at least this is what my English read)
Having a cleaner (or gardener, babysitter etc) is not at all uncommon. The big problem is how to find a good one.
I’ve had a few over the years, found via recommendations: neighbours, friends in the area, or the cleaner recommending a new one, usually when they found a full-time cleaning job and no longer do houses.
In my experience :
I would be very suspicious and run away from anybody willing to work in Switzerland without registration. It is by far the norm here (the admin is very easy and costs are small). All my cleaners made it clear from 1st minute that they demand AVS registration or will not work.
I am no expert in the domain or rates, but there are minimum wages which are cantonal around 19-20 chf per hour, however this would not get you far (applies to someone who never cleaned before and works many hours a day, not having to drive around), realistically you are looking around 30 chf per hour or there about (and most will be happy with that, anything beyond is too much in my view). You have to provide the materials.
If you get a company, you are looking at approx double that (you pay the company who then pays the AVS, plus their overheads, so no saving). But they use their own materials, you get the same person if you ask for a periodic service, and have all their insurances for damages.
I suspect the cleaners are paid minimum wage though, so if I know the person I prefer to pay them more and do the admin myself.
The MAIN difficulty if finding the cleaner. The AVS and if the rate is 28 versus 30 chf is peanuts. Basically if you can find a good cleaner via good recommendations of friends etc, then by all means you get them and do the registration, if not you go for a company for peace of mind at a premium.
I would never even think hiring somebody without registering, there are many ways this can come back and bite you (beyond the threat of fines for avoiding paying AVS ):
Every self-respecting cleaner here won’t work cash in hand. If you find someone willing to do, you need to think of the reasons (why don’t they want AVS? are they bad? desperate? criminal record?)
What if the person is without a permit, and therefore you are caught hiring people illegaly living in Switzerland? This is worse for you than simply forgetting to pay the AVS.
Registration comes with insurance for accidents while cleaning. What if they fall from the stool while cleaning, and go to hospital? As soon as they mention they were cleaning your windows, their LAMAL health insurance (assuming they have one) won’t cover them (they will pay, but come against you) and it is your responsibility. It can cost a lot. What if they have an accident elsewhere and claim that eg a grudge against you?
What if the person eg steals something of sentimental value, or something goes missing (it can happen, nowadays unfortunately some cantons recommend asking for criminal record extract before hiring) and you have to go to the police? What do you tell them? What assurances do you have that even the name they gave you is true?
@AlexSec, my friend pays her cleaner somewhere around 38 chf per hour (but that was in 2019 and I didn’t ask since then; she was looking to fill her schedule and that’s why I even got to know)
Anyway, she was paying her taxes herself so everything was legit. She was recommended by someone who was also recommend by someone else etc you know the “chain”.
Another friend, has hired a company and the cleaner scratched her cooking “island”* and it was very visible, she complained to the company - 0 response. It looks like even if you hire a company, you’re not totally protected against such “accidents”.
*to quote this friend “How one even scratches this material…man, it took some effort!”
Thank you very much for the detailed answer, really appreciate it :
I could think of other situations why someone would not want to declare this, but let’s not open Pandora’s Box (again, points noted)
Ty also for the answers -->maybe broke some ceramic along the way → then used something to wipe everything … and after cleaned the counter with the same cloth (or scrounge :)) while still having ceramics inside of it.
PS → also checked out some companies near me on Google Maps and some reviews → along these types of experiences / or even simpler → no showers
Especially @greenmount : about work quality / was talking to my aunt this morning and again, we had the discussion that when hiring “help” [classic building rehabilitation] you get the crappiest quality in the last years (since all the “good” ones migrated here / onwards)
PS2 : I remember when moving to this apartment, the previous tenant did the whole “official” thing with a company that in theory cleaned it [and I remember the guy said it cost a shitload of money] —> and the apartment was empty noticed a lot of spider webs / dust and other things on the radiators … etc → so yeah, quality wise → it depends and you don’t get any certainty from companies also
