It’s becoming a pattern-- Me on my bike and someone in a vehicle each believe we have right of way. I have a verbal exchange with the person but neither comprehends and I can’t really defend my own position because I have never taken any Swiss driving exam, and also would have trouble discussing the finer points in German. Then I come to EF with a google maps screenshot with colored arrows to ask about it.
So without further ado: I am the blue arrow on my bike (rules would be the same if in a car I guess), and a big giant truck is the green arrow.
As far as I could see it is a 4-way with the bollard thing in the middle; no dashed lines, none of those yield-arrow things or anything.
I believe that this is an all-way yield situation, with Rechtsvortritt as the tie-breaker. As in, everyone has to come up and come almost to a stop and yield to whoever was first. You can’t just keep speeding on through when you see someone coming from the left, like you would in a Rechtsvortritt-only situation. You have to slow down, sort of like a 4-way stop in the US.
To me it seemed like me and the truck arrived at basically the same time. I figured then that I win the tie-breaker because I’m to the right.
Anyways he thought differently and leaned out the window and stopped so I turned around to go “discuss” and I said “I came from the right” and he said “What do we have back there?” gesturing to the intersection with the bollard thing. I didn’t understand his point and wasn’t confident enough so he assumed victory by saying “Please …” and it was left at that.
I don’t know if it’s just me but I think the Swiss yield rules are difficult also for Swiss people. My last post was a case where I guess I turned out to be correct, and the other guy (who seemed Swiss) was wrong. Maybe I am wrong this time around, but in any case there seems to be confusion and disagreement commonly.
Law of the jungle, he's biggest and will do you far more damage than you can ever hope to, yield, smile and move on, your life is probably worth a bit more than to piss off a large truck
Maybe he was referring to the No Entry sign on the road you were about to ride into, although it allows for pedal power, so it shouldn't have been a problem.
Otherwise, I echo what others have said, don't mess with large vehicles when you are the vulnerable one on a bike, even if you are in the right. Just roll your eyes and let them go on by.
I would say that you had right of way, doubly so on a bicycle. As a cyclist you are in the pecking order just under a mother with a pram. Even if you were in the wrong he would get at least a partial fault.
Aren't the smaller "traffic island" types always rechtsvortritt, though? I think my natural response would be to check out what's coming from my right.
You get a slightly better view from the other street on Maps. I don't think it is a roundabout - there's no sign or markings to indicate it is. Particularly no give-way lines.
No, it's not like a 4-way stop, there is never any first come rule here. The Rechtsvortritt is absolute.
it's a really bad design and looks like there are several of these in the neighborhood, it feels like a small roundabout because you cannot go straight without going over the circle, but indeed it is not as there is no signal or yield sign.
This is the roundabout sign. Google maps is not very clear, but I don't see any sign posts or road markings, so I would treat this as a Rechsvortritt intersection.
Yes, I guess just in the habit of saying “Rechtsvortritt” because it’s nice to be able to say it in one-word (at least that’s I think why I say it even when I’m speaking English, but maybe also to know that I know the “local” rule about it, and am not just importing the concept from another country)
Interesting. In Germany it is determined by the “Kreis” sign. if there isn ́t a sign then it ́s right before left.
In CH no so much, it ́s a bit of a gray area and it seems that there is a movement in the Bundesrat to clarify this. Best is to give way to who ever has the biggest vehicle. https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetr…airId=20023353
That appears to be more about the uncertainty of whether a roundabout can be used in a 2-lane fashion. Which is definitely also a problem I have encountered here (with the car).
I also have a feeling that a true roundabout probably needs to have the white triangle yield road-markings on every entrance. And needs to be big enough such that a big truck or bus could actually drive in a circle and not get stuck.
Ah I missed this edit. So this circular white checkered thing indicates a roundabout? There are a bunch of those in Kreis 5.
I guess a roundabout behaves sort of like a timing-based thing. If you are the first one to reach the roundabout, that means there’s nobody for you to yield to. They can’t really expect to get priority by driving faster if you see what I mean. You would be “entering” the roundabout first, and then they would enter it afterwards, and it’s their responsibility to not rear-end once inside the roundabout travelling behind you.
It’s for sure confusing. In hindsight I think I intuitively treat these ones with the checkered markings the same as the ones with the raised circle with bollard. They are the same size and have a thing in the middle. They feel nothing like a roundabout. More like what in the US would be called an “uncontrolled” intersection. No markings no nothing which just means, you have to go slow and yield, and it’s essentially timing-based, with a tie-breaker to the right if I remember correctly. This is what I mean-- a tiny roundabout is an ill-formed concept. It degrades into something different, once it is so small that you can’t really drive in a circle inside it.
If I had come to that intersection, I think I would have assumed it's a roundabout and treated it as one.
There are a lot of roundabouts in our area, and they are definitely roundabouts and treated as roundabouts, but I don't recall ever seeing one of those signs (in the post above) on or near any of them.
