ECPE and ETH

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1
Hi guys.

In ETH's website it says that ECPE (Michigan) grade B corresponds to CEF level C1.

However there are no total grades associated with ECPE, as Hellenic American Union (responsible for ECPE exams in Greece) confirmed, after I asked them.

So my question is, what exactly does ETH mean with grade A and grade B?

2
It seems ETH is embarrassingly ignorant regarding the language requirements they accept as valid. I have sent them my original ECPE Michigan Proficiency, on which of course no grade is printed, and here is their reply:

"Unfortunately, we cannot accept your Michigan Certificate, even with the separate test report. It does not show the grade (whether as a letter or in numbers) on the certificate. The newer Michigan certificates do have this feature on the certificate. I am aware that this might seem a small detail, but we cannot deviate from our regulations. There is however still time to do one of the accepted tests before the semester starts."

This is one of the most frustrating moments, I've ever experienced in academia. There is absolutely no new certificate format. There are only two grades: either PASS or PASS WITH HONORS. Could it be that the Swiss bureaucracy is not only badly informed but also outstandingly obstinate? I'm currently in contact with the University of Michigan and they may help me to reason with them.

3
I implore anyone who has similar experience to share it with us.

It would be a great pity if every holder of ECPE Michigan would end up like that case:

Frustrating and unfair admission at the ETH Zurich

4
Bump

5

I’m afraid I can see their point. It’s quite clear in their language requirements what they need.

https://www.ethz.ch/en/studies/regis…uirements.html

Your certificate tells them nothing, I’m sorry to say, if it just says passed. It doesn’t give them any indication that you can speak German to the level required by ETH for study purposes. There’s no mention of the Michigan certificate that I can see. Where did you find that on their site?

Instead of arguing, simply arrange to take one of the accepted tests.

6
You just posted for the sake of posting right? ECPE Michigan is an ENGLISH language proficiency.

7
And everyone in the world knows that do they?

At no point in your previous posts was it mentioned that this related to your ability to speak English, and as English is not one of the official languages of Switzerland then I ́m not sure why you would automatically expect anyone to know that was what you were talking about.

Before giving snarky responses to people, please consider what has actually been written, rather than what you were trying to state.

8
I wouldnt try to get them to change their policy regarding ECPE. I was in the same boat (same country, same certification) three years ago, but I couldnt prove englsh proficiency the way they wanted with what I had. Just go and get the TOEFL certification, if your English is good, it's only one wasted afternoon and some cash (no need to prepare, can take the exam with minimum waiting time in the central cities in Greece)

9
@_caroline Could you provide some more infromation? What exactly is their policy? Not accepting the proficiency they require in their own list? How exactly does the proficiency they WOULD ACCEPT look like?

10

It would also help if you posted your nationality and what course you wanted to take. My assumption was that you’re American (Uni of Michigan certificate) needing to have a certain fluency in German to do a Bachelors course at ETH. Don’t expect people to provide the right answer if you don’t give them the right info to work with.

_caroline, he’s not in Greece, he’s based in Germany. The original OP was based in Greece back in 2013.

11
@Medea Fleecestealer I appreciate your willingness to contribute to this thread. Please forgive my "rough" attitude, but this situation is unprecedented for me and as I have already stated I feel frustrated and to some extent offended by the treatment I've received from the admission office so far.

So if you want to get informed, please consider the following link https://www.ethz.ch/en/studies/registration-application/master/application/admission-prerequisites/language-requirements.html and then reread posts #1 and #2.

Additionally, please note that we are talking about a MASTER course at ETH with a C1 level required minimum.

12
OK, this is weird. When I applied to ETH in 2011, the ECPE was in fact, not listed, as an accepted certificate. Digging through my emails at the time, I asked

"> I have an enquiry regarding language requirements. I want to apply for a Masters

> Degree in Computer Science. The English requirement is level C1, but my

> certificate, ECPE ( http://www.lsa.umich.edu/eli/testing/ecpe ) is not listed as one

> of the recognized certificates (although it's generally recognized as level C2).

> Also, this certificate is quite old (more than 5 years). Do I have to take the

> TOEFL exam?"

and the answer was "We only accept the certificates listed on the page". Is it possible they updated the list, without updating their policies in a way that doesnt create impossible situations? (ie, having a diploma that is "admissibile", but then not)

13
That's exactly what I thought. ECPE was not accepted back then. Now that it is accepted, they do not accept the classical ECPE 99% with no grade on it of the Michigan test takers possesses but a new one that apparently DOES NOT EXIST. And instead of researching the whole thing, they suggest I pay 220$ for a totally useless test. I still cannot fathom how an institute of ETH's calibre could put up such an act. That is narrow-mindedness at its finest, to say the least.

14
I guess if somebody has the ECPE with honors, since this distinction is written on the certificate, it would count.

15
The minimum requirement does not require Honors. I rly cannot believe we are having this conversation right now. This is third-world bureaucracy...

16

Well, the Swiss can be bureaucratic sometimes. Have you sent them a copy of their own language requirements page? As you say, it’s quite clear there that a Pass should be accepted. The only thing I can think they might be referring to regarding “new” certificates was this on the Michigan website:

http://www.cambridgemichigan.org/abo…rs-final-phase

Still, if you want to get into ETH you can either continue to fight them on this if they continue to refuse your certificate or go and get a new one. You don’t really have any other choices. The thing is I assume there’s a deadline for your application to be accepted, so is it really worth fighting over this when getting a new certificate would solve the problem quickly?

17
Dude, every Greek guy that was admitted to ETH in 2012 and last year, either had to take a TOEFL/IELTS or produce a Cambridge-issued ESOL.

I gave them the ESOL and was done.

Most people had Michigan issued certificates, and all of them had to take an exam.

Never heard of ETH accepting Michigan's Proficiency.

18
It's on their WEBSITE!!! Look at their response at post #2. They now accept the Michigan proficiency. As of 2013 I am quite sure their list had been already updated.

What does the nationality have to do with the regulations by the way?

19
Because in Greece people tend to get the michigan proficiency instead of the cambridge one, resulting in getting bitten in the ass by eth later!

20
Now that they have changed their regulation. Is there anyone out there who was accepted with a ECPE Michigan Proficiency?