Getting fired, false reasons, RAV

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
1
Hi

Love this forum so far, very down to earth and non-judgemental!

I have an issue.

I’m on a B permit.

I have been recently fired after having worked for a company for 2.5 years.

Official reason: I didn’t want to come to work on the 1st of March (personal and family reasons; however I asked for unpaid holidays but the company refused for no specific reason - generally I feel like they wanted to fire me, just were looking for a reason).

They sent me a document that states that I have been made redundant starting 1st of March, at “my initiative”

I said it’s incorrect because it was their initiative, so they sent a new one, saying that they give me 3 months notice and I have to work until the end of April.

Which obviously contradicts the official reason behind firing me.

They also mentioned that if I don’t show up at work on the 1st of April, they’ll give me a warning and stop paying the salary. The latter is fine, but the ‘warning’ I find very off putting.

Anyways my reasons are still in place, I have to take care of my stuff, I don’t need their salary, so I will not show up at work, but is there anything else I should take care of or be aware of?

As a solution, should I force them to give me the additional holidays (costing 2% of annual salary per week), or just don’t show up and have them not pay the salary? What would be pros and cons?

After reading the forum I also understand there’s no point to register to RAV at this point? In this case, when would be the best time to do it? Is it at all required if I plan to look for another job anyway, or leave switzerland altogether?

Thank you!

2
HoooBOy! Did you ever pick the wrong time to join the EF.

3
Ya, about that.... it is closing down on Friday!

4

So how about providing some advice to help the newcomer before that happens!

OP did you mean the 1st March if you don’t show up for work or the 1st April as you said?

5
Haha, I have been told by the admin it's closing down on Friday, so that's why I rushed to ask the question.

Sorry for the confusion. 1st of March not showing up at work, and my new-official last day of work is 30th of April

6
The admin pointed me to the thread about it. So sad! Such a fantastic people are here, unlike some FB groups for expats.

Where is everyone migrating afterwards?

7

https://www.englishforum.ch/announce…ease-join.html

8
My mistake, should be:

They also mentioned that if I don’t show up at work on the 1st of March, they’ll give me a warning and stop paying the salary. The latter is fine, but the ‘warning’ I find very off putting.

9
So you asked for a day off 1st of March which the company refused to approve and told you you'd get fired if you don't show up?

Or more days off as of the 1st of March?

10

Oh, and spend a couple of hundred francs and ask a lawyer.

11
That's where you're wrong

12
I basically asked for "few weeks" off (which is allowed according to the internal rules) or for ability to do a home office (which me and many people in the company are doing on a regular basis), both requets refused.

Simply yes, they said that if I am not willing to come, they fire me

13
What do you mean by that?

14
You are legally obliged to turn up at work. Although the employer also has a responsibility to consider your requests to be absent, it is the employer who decides when you are allowed to be a away. Therefore, if you don't comply with what the employer says, about your working hours, then it is you who are in default.

Your employer - just like you - is allowed to terminate the contract at any time, as long as they, or you, comply with the notice period. During the notice period, you are obliged to attend work when they say. They are obliged to continue to pay you.

Neither party is allowed to "just stop". However, both parties are allowed to sign an agreement to stop sooner than fulfilling the notice period. Do not sign any such paper! It is invariably to your disadvantage. And do not resign. For the purposes of being eligible for unemployment funds (RAV) afterwards, it is more advantagious to have been dismissed than to have left pseudo-voluntarily or by mutual agreement.

I find some parts of your post confusing. They've either fired you or given you a warning, I'm not sure which. In any case, since your permit hangs upon this employment contract, in your position I would be inclined to comply with everything the employer has requested. Go to work on all the days they say you must, and while there, really do the work you're supposed to be doing. That will give the employers the impression that you're compliant, and they might then be less likely to fire you.

Legal exceptions are: if you have a doctor's certificate because you are genuinely ill, if you have a doctor's certificate for your immediate family members because you have to take care of them, but this latter us limited to only some number of days (but you'd have to check that). In those cases, you may be absent from work even withouth your employer's permission. However, they do not protect you from being fired once those days are over.

15

The laws about being away because of needing to care for a sick family member are here:

Bundesgesetz über die Arbeit in Industrie, Gewerbe und Handel
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1…e#lvl_IV/lvl_3
3. Arbeitnehmer mit Familienpflichten

Obligationenrecht
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2…lvl_VIII/lvl_6
6. Urlaub für die Betreuung von Angehörigen

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2…lvl_VIII/lvl_7
7. Urlaub für die Betreuung eines wegen Krankheit oder Unfall gesundheitlich schwer beeinträchtigten Kindes

16
I mean

a) Love this forum so far, very down to earth and non-judgemental!

No, it isn't,.

and b)

Talk to an lawyer to get actual advice.

The fact is, you are saying that you won't turn up on that day. They're telling you that if that happens, you're sacked. That means that you instigated it. Start looking for another job now, and document that's what you've been doing.

17
I feel like there is a lot more to this story somehow....

I will try ...

What does a "few weeks off" mean? Typically employees ask for a specific number of days of vacation, and don't say "a few weeks" - that ranges from 2 to 6 to whatever and no employer is going to say yes to that.

Where would the WFH take place? Other country? In many cases this causes corporate tax issues so again, I understand that a few weeks working from Bahamas may be turned down.

What is the reason you need this time off? Again can Ange from "I need a break" all the way to "a family member needs my help during an operation". Of course you are never obliged to disclose personal matters to an employer but I have found it goes a long way to help them to understand why something is very important to you.

Without more context, indeed if you do not show up you will be fired without pay and RAV will apply whatever maximum penalty they can as this will be seen as you being hostile and loosing your job out of your own unwillingness to comply to the rules.

18
I know this is confusing, so again:

1. they fired me, but they wanted to trick me into signing the document that I volountairly quit. The official reason for firing me was that I said I can't show up physically at work on that day (I offered I can do home office instead or take 'additional holidays' that cost 2% of annyal salary per week) - they rejected on the spot both requests for no specific reason

2. After I mentioned that they should remove the sentence 'at my initiative' form the document, they sent me a brand new document saying that they give me thre monst notice.

3. I asked for clarification, because that doesn't align with what was discussed during the phone call (they one they fired me), and since they fired me becaue I can't show up at work, how will that fit the new, extended termination period.

4. Approx 19 days later, after I did all the arrengements assuming that my last day of work is 29th of February, HR person responded that I must show up at work or they will stop paying my salary and send the 'warning'.

It looks like they needed a reason to fire me, when they found one, then they tried to trick me to sign the document with false statement, and when I called them on the lie and refused to sign it, they issued a new one, quoting their 'Regelement' and extending the termination period for 2 months (the same Regelement that says the employee is entitled to 'additional holidays').

19
I will tell you what it looks like to me....

Yes they may have been looking for a reason and you served it on a golden after.

The reason they applied notice is that that makes it all much easier for them. It's goodwill to avoid hassle.

And indeed employer can refuse holidays etc.

You talk about "cannot come that day" and then you talk about "a few weeks" - the story is not confusing, the way you tell it is which is why I think there is more.

You are obliged to work your notice and they are entitled to dock pay if you don't show up.

20
Really? As I understand it, you are supposed to register with RAV the moment you know that you will be unemployed, if you want to avoid penalties.