Presumably the old guy on the tram was Swiss. We have no idea of his command of English, so whatever he said, regardless of his background and Swiss culture, should not be taken 100% as received.
It's like when you go in a posh Swiss hotel or store and ask "Do you speak English?" and you get the reply "Of course!" This isn't being smart of cocky it's translating naturlich, how the response would be in German into English. An example of why English-speakers find German speakers amusing.
The old guy should have course replied "If your child does that again, I'll make here sit on the naughty stair for 5 minutes"...
At one point, the threat of punishment -physical or not- has to be followed by action, or the child will soon understand that it is only bluff and so will continue to engage in the forbidden act regardless of the scolding. Discipline can be enforced in various ways but in any case it is important to show there are consequences to bad behaviour.
I agree with your observations. But I consider that the northern children attitude a bit paranoiac (with respect to slapping, threatening, but also other aspects - the pedophile-everywhere-mania). I like this sentence:
I'm reasonably tolerant of kids, but I wouldn't like to be put in the same situation as this grumpy man, don't care how nice your kid is, the parent should have it under control. It shouldn't be running around grabbing strangers, it's not accceptable behaviour. No-one would like it if I went up to random people on public transport and started stroking their arms, no matter how nice my smile.
Annoyingly, don't know what you can do if you're put in this situation, I certainly wouldn't be thinking nice thoughts about the parents.
If you look at my profile, you will see that I live in Locarno.
27 years actually - since 1971 but I don't see how that affects the situation for our children today.
I haven't been able to find anything about breastfeeding being banned in Switzerland in public places. Maybe you have a source for this? In any case, this would not change my opinion that Switzerland is a great place to raise children.
It isn't only the kids getting physical punishment in their families.
Street gangs are being quite rough about physical punishments, the same goes for prison inmates ... if I think about it a bit longer ... I might find some more...
My mum or dad would give me a quick slap if I was really naughty (usually involving a one-sided boxing match with my little sister or trying to gel the dog's fur) but it was usually the sharp slap on the back of the legs that stings for about five minutes, makes you sulk, then show the red mum-hand print off to your mates as a battle scar.
Never did me any harm and I actually feel sorry for being such a monkey for my poor parents.
Raschpa, I think we need a new thread for this discussion because we are going way off topic.
As a mother who has lived all over the world with her child, I can tell you that I feel very secure here with my son and very happy with the education he is getting.
I'm glad I haven't encountered any people like the grumpy guy on the bus and hope I never will. In any case, I would not take it lightly.
But so far you haven't produced one shred of evidence to back up your claims. I could state all sorts of "facts" from my head about Switzerland but none of it would be taken seriously if there is nothing to back it up.
yes, kids should be educated that you have to behave in public, to strangers, things that dont belong to you (child) etc. etc. but they are kids, ok? you cant avoid any situation and at some point a child is going through that specific misbehaving, you tell them of whats wrong and by respecting you as its parents...the child should accept that what you are saying for the future. thats the way education works, as it did for me and for many other kids.
but at times kids behave like kids and maybe dont do what you are saying/were saying before, does not stand within the set limits. so imagine the mother sitting in the tram, getting out with the pram, people getting out with you, people standing infront at the station, they want in, you have to check all your belongings (toys, clothes etc) need to pick that up, stuff it in your pockets and try to get out as quick as possible. that is pure stress! and maybe the kid stepped already outside and for a sudden touching that guy... i mean, how can you have control all the way about your child? you would need 7 arms and 3 heads to do that at all time! its not the case that twiglet supports anti-authoritian breeding.
thats why i dont understand why she is kind of accused to be guilty that this has happened? for me there was actually no time for reaction, a call/shout to stop or come back? and i would find it somewhat strange if people retrieve their kid like a dog, behaving like one ALL THE TIME!?
I am a parent and I agree with you. Just because I have kids doesn't mean I want someone else's kid stroking my arm. I am not grumpy, I just don't want stranger's kids touching me. It is up to a parent to teach a child appropriate behaviour, and the child in question is old enough to understand how to behave on public transit. The bigger issue is whether the mother knows how to discipline her child....if you tell your child to stop, they should know you mean what you say. Had I been the man in question I would have told the mother to kindly move her child. He probably said the first thing that came to mind. He was agitated and probably not very impressed with the mother's behaviour. Riding public transit means sharing a space with others, and in addition to keeping one's music at a tolerable level not to disturb other passengers, one also must be considerate of other passengers and not let their children stroke their arm.
I am, however, far more tolerant if someone's dog walks beside me and can't resist the urge to sniff me. That is what dogs do to people who own dogs, even when the dogs are not with me. Often the owner is rather embarrassed. If the dog jumped up on me, that would be in appropriate.
I understand and respect how you feel about this Mrs. Dolittle. We are all different. I would be honored if a little girl came up to me and started chatting and would not be bothered if she touched me. I also wouldn't mind if a cute puppy jumped all over me. (A big scary dog would be different of course.)
I'm also amazed how I block out kids screaming around me. Sometimes it takes me about half-an-hour before I even realize that a kid is screaming at the top of his lungs and by then, everyone around me is totally annoyed. I wasn't like this before I became a mother. I guess I just learned to block these things out to save my sanity.