Proprietor won't rent apartment before I have my permit

Accomodation, House and Garden
1
Greetings,

So, I got an answer from the proprietor of one of the nicer apartments I applied for, in the city of Zürich. Apparently he would like to rent the apartment out to me, but says he can't let it to somebody who does not yet hold his work permit, unless there is someone who can sign for joint liability for me.

Now the thing is, a few days ago I got a message from my new employer (after having sent them a while ago all the documents they asked for to get my permit), saying that they checked with the cantonal authorities and they need to take no action, since as an EU-15 citizen I am free to work in Switzerland if I have a job offer and only need to register when I arrive with the authorities and show a copy of the contract. So basically I won't have a permit to show before I'm move.

Is this common that proprietors will only rent out apartments to people already holding a permit? Anyway I would give a deposit for the apartment (of a few month's rent), and would be willing to pay part of the rent in advance while signing the contract - so I don't see what the risk is for the proprietor - even if for some reason I would not be allowed to work in Switzerland (which I don't see happening, being an EU citizen, having a signed employment contract, and an employer who would have gotten me a permit even if I were not an EU national), he would have the rent for a few months covered, and could let it to someone else without any loss, and probably some gain...

Does anybody know what the thing with the joint liability is exactly for? What would it protect the proprietor against?

I would try to call the proprietor later on the phone and try to talk to him and understand the issue better - ask him what can be done, and why having an EU passport (he has a copy of it) doesn't assure him enough. But I'm not sure yet - what didn't I think of?

I would love it if I could get this apartment. Any helpful tips or advice for my situation? Thanks,

-- Tom

2
While waiting for my work permit, I got a letter from my employer, stating I had a full time job, and I also had a letter from the gemeinde which just said my work permit was being processed, and would arrive shortly. The landlord was happy with the letter from the employer.

3
When I applied for apartments I attach to my application a letter from my employer confirming that I will be employed full time in Zürich and what my salary would be. So apparently that alone isn't enough for this proprietor.

As for a letter from the Gemeinde - as I said, as an EU citizen there is no processing, and no application for the permit needs to be submitted, so what letter can I get from them? Any further advice appreciated,

-- Tom

4
When you register you still get a letter from the commune saying that your permit is being processed.

5
But as I am to register only when I settle in Zürich already (and as I understand, should then get all documents within a few days), how would this help me now to satisfy the proprietor? -- Tom

6
Before we first arrived in 2001, we got a notice whilst still in Scotland from Bern via my employer that a B-permit would be granted on our arrival. This was enough to get us into our first apartment.

IIRC, the residency permit has your address on it - so if you haven't moved in anywhere I wonder how it can be issued?

Rgds,

Nick

7
I found that many landlords and estate agents where not up to date on the new rules for EU citizens. I found that once I explained that once I moved in, getting a permit was just a formality and that the documents that they had where enough some of them relaxed a bit more.

I believe the rules for getting permits for EU citizens have changed a lot very quickly and the real estate "common practices" are still catching up with these changes.

8
Well, you can't. You will have to discuss this further with the owner. As Woodsie said, he might not really quite understand the new rules.

9
Thanks. I tried talking to the proprietor, to no avail. Wasn't very open to understand the situation - simply answered "sorry, you can't rent the apartment till you have your permit, that's the rule".

Oh well...

10
The Swiss love their rules...

It sounds as though you are already here in Zürich.

Is that true? If so, you could get your paperwork quickly.

11
No, I'm not already in Zürich. I'll be moving beginning of June. Been there end of April to see apartments, and now handling matters remotely.

12
I may be wrong here, but as an EU citizen, your employer does need to submit some paperwork so that you can get your resident ́s permit. What the proprietor is probably looking for is the information that you application for a resident ́s permit has been accepted. As some of the other posters mentioned you will receive a letter from the department for population control (or some other name that doesn ́t spring to mind right now) saying that your resident ́s application has been accepted and this letter you can show to the proprieter and then you shouldn ́t have problems. When you arrive in CH you then go to your local Gemeinde with this letter and register and in a few weeks you get your official resident ́s permit. At least that ́s what happened for me last year.

My understanding is that as an EU citizen you are allowed to live and work here but that doesn ́t mean that there are no formalities involved. You have to apply for a resident ́s permit which is not the same as a work permit to my knowledge (which is limited), but as an EU citizen you don ́t need a work permit. Welcome to CH

13
in some cases , real estate agencies dealing with short term rentals and expat crowd are more informed about anything relating to new permit regulations.

as well they have already contacts with short term rental owners who are used to see expat and have a grip on new regulations.

owners who are used to rent their apartments only every 4 or 5 years may not really follow the changes. if you go through a real estate agency, it might be a little easier , but direct by owner could be sometimes a problem as they try to follow the same process as they did the last time they rented their apartment and the tenant may have lived there since 1950...

some owners are used to ask for the pink slip and the green form with the yellow bottom . that s all they know if you do not present them a form of that color, as far as they are concerned, you are not following the rules and you are out. they know they will rent the place anyway, thus less trouble for them is what they are looking for.

you are in a catch 22 at present

you might want to consider getting a short term rental for 1-2 months

just to get settled. it gives you the time to get your paperwork (whatever it is) , knowing the different areas of the town where you would prefer to live....

then look for a place while in the city. of course this is good if you are coming for a long term contract and you do not expect 20 40 ft containers full of furniture being delivered to your new address from your country.

14
Sorry Eireann, but when did Israel join the EU? The OP states his nationality as Israeli.

15
Hi

I moved here in November and got my B-Permit in March. I didn't need it to get an apartment – and I moved in in December after being put up in a company flat. This took a little longer as I moved with my partner and children and had to sign forms to vouch for her – and then they made her sign forms that she would support herself and then ... We all have 5 year permits now.

I did have to show my work contract and a letter from work to the Landlord which said I was in full time permanent employment in Zurich.

The rules may be the rules but they aren’t the law. He can rent out his apartment to you under any conditions you both agree upon provided they don’t contravene the law. If it’s his rule you need a permit I guess that’s his choice as landlord. If he doesn’t want to understand the new laws for residence I guess that’s his choice too. You as a rent paying tenant have a choice too; it’s a hard one, find some where with a more reasonable landlord.

Good luck- it isn’t easy finding a place here but it’s not impossible.

16
Apparently he is a dual national.

I thought that the EU citizen could just take thier contract with them to the commune when they register. Is that not enough?

17
At first I thought so too. But apparently the regulations have been relaxed for EU nationals last year, by virtue of the Bilateral Agreement on the Free Movement of Persona (see: http://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home/...lt_der_eu.html ). So I and my employer believe, and I really hope, that you are wrong here. I was in contact with my employer last month to arrange for the working permit, and after they learned that I am an EU citizen, they informed me that nothing needs to be done on their part.

Which I will only have after I register, which will be after I move in.

As far as I know, the authorities have not yet been informed that I will be moving to Switzerland (soon the Customs authorities will be for the duty-free import of my stuff, but other than that I don't think any were), so they can't have sent me any letter.

As far as I understood, I need to go register at my local Gemeinde after I move in, show an employment contract and EU passport, and they will then give me that confirmation, and after a while send me all documents.

Perhaps that was before the full stage of the Free Movement of Persons treaty for EU-17 nationals (old EU states + Malta & Cyprus) was entered in June 2007? (By your username I guess you're Irish?)

Yes, but as I understand it, the formalities have been greatly reduced last year for citizens of the older EU-17 states, together with the abolition of quotas.

I know there is some difference between a working permit and a residence permit, but actually I'm not quite sure I understood it yet. The only official document references I found for non-citizen residents was the Auslanderausweis, and I'm not sure how it is related to either.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to getting through the hassles and joys of settling in. People in this forum are really helpful with that.

-- Tom

18
Being even more removed from Europe than Turkey, and with all the political and social mess here, that won't likely be soon... With all the American aid here Israel may be more likely to become a United States of America protectorate than an EU country.

Actually I have dual citizenship. Germany normally doesn't allow that, but they have a special exception for Israeli citizens with German Jewish ancestry who fled in the holocaust. As far as I know they have such a special exception nowadays with one more state - the Vatican, and it applies to one citizen there.

-- Tom

19
That's right.

That's what I was told by my employer.

-- Tom

20
Tom,

I am also EU citizen and we had L permit prior to introduction of new rules on 1 June last year. On 1 June we applied for B EU permits, and we still had to go to Gemeinde Haus, fill in the forms and bring the work contract, although there were less formalities because what free movement of persons means is that you will not be subject to quota anymore when local authorities consider you for a job. You would still however need a work permit: a residence permit, where it is written that you have a right to work here in Switzerland.

So in my opinion your employer does have o be involved in the residence permit issue.

best,

lana