My husband and I will be moving to Geneva (from Atlanta) in the next few weeks. We are starting the apartment search...which is a bit overwhelming. I have a few questions that I figured I would throw out to all you pro's to seek advice.
First, is it best to rent a furnished or unfurnished apartment? My new company will pay for us to ship our things to Geneva...but I wasn't sure if it would be easier to just find something furnished (my job is a 2 year post). Otherwise, we could ship some of the essentials (e.g. bed, dresser, tv, etc) and buy the rest at IKEA or something like that.
Also, is it worth it to bring our US tv, stereo, etc? I know the outlets are different, so I wasn't sure if it would be more difficult working with convertors.
I have searched through some of the threads for this type of info...so if I missed it, please feel free to just post the link and I would be happy to do my own reading!
Furnished of unfurnished is a matter of preference. Unfurnished still gives you a fridge (European size), freezer (European size), dishwasher, maybe a washing machine and a stove/oven.
Get your employer to put you up in a paid, serviced apartment for a couple of months while you find a place. Get them to do this instead of paying for moving. This would be worth a lot more.
leave everything in storage. If you are going to do an Ikea shop, you can kit an apartment out with a few thousand (I'd say CHF3K), easily. If you are only planning on being here for 2 years, buy **** that will take that amount of time to disintegrate. Minimal and cheap.
Don't bring the TV, Stereo or any other appliance. Bring yourselves with as little baggage as possible.
Lastly, read the forum. Spend a couple of days browsing as there is a lot of useful info in it, you just have to scratch about.
Finding an apartment is the most difficult thing you are going to have to do. Probably your best resource for this will be the classifieds on the WHO intranet site, since they have a rather closed audience.
What a lot of people wind up doing is taking a sub-let. According to a story I read in the Tribune last year the depth of subletting has now reached something like six. Anyhow, it's hard, but not impossible.
My husband and I have the same situation. We decided to bring our furniture, but I think that is not a good idea. I rather prefer buy used things here. Now we are moving back to our country and I have to sell everything for a cheap price! So if you buy used things, then you sell it cheap!!!
Thank you all for your suggestions and links to other posts. I have some reading to do tomorrow!
I may take you up on the furniture. When are you moving and what are your selling?
Oh - another question. Would you all recommend using an agency to help find an apartment? Or a relocation firm? We've never lived abroad so we are really doing this quite blindly (although very excited about doing it!!).
I would probably try to find something in the WHO classifieds, especially if you don't mind subletting, and then go for the agency. Dealing with the régies (property management agencies) is such a PITA that I think it's an unfair introduction to Geneva and Switzerland.
Another idea I've mentioned in the forum is to try using an attorney, who would bill by the hour thus potentially providing a cost savings over an agency.
We used Michelaud et Cie the last time we moved, but only after having searched for 8 months and given up.
Generally the régies seem to give preference to families with children, so if you have kids it's probably worth trying to apply for a few places to see if maybe you'll get lucky.
If you pay someone is necessary if you don't have time to find an apt.
To start, with you don't have child, you could try live in a room in a share apt, also very cheap and nice idea. Then you have more time to find your apt!
But if you have child, it's a little bit difficult to handle, and make pay for someone to find an apt to you will be nice, but be prepare for the price.
In the past few months, developments in the mortgage and real estate markets have attracted increasing attention. Europe, and Switzerland in particular, have been indirectly affected as a result of commercial bank activities in US mortgage markets. Over the past few quarters, the European real estate market has also been affected, with a number of countries experiencing a downturn in prices similar to that in the United States. By contrast, other countries, such as Switzerland, have seen real estate prices rising at a steady pace.
In some respects, what the United States went through is a classical property crisis of the type that Switzerland experienced in the early 1990s. However, the US real estate crisis spilled over to encompass the international financial markets, endangering their stability and prompting the intervention of several central banks. These events confirm the importance of sound real estate market developments for the economy.
It is important to recognise that the Swiss mortgage and real estate markets are very different from their US counterparts. Developments in the Swiss housing market have been relatively steady, despite the strong demand pressures discernible in certain regions. At present we do not detect any obvious signs of a speculative bubble that might culminate in a sudden fall in prices. The main explanations for the rise in real estate prices in the past few years have been higher expectations and good financing conditions. Around Lake Geneva the pressures on the limited available space and the fast growth in the residential population have acted as special stimulants. Thus there have been no speculative developments as witnessed at the end of the 1980s. Now that the business cycle has peaked in Switzerland, it is very likely that we will move into a phase of more moderate price increases.
Actually in Geneva many flats do not have kitchen equipment (fridge, stove, etc), only cupboards. This is what they call 'cuisine agencée'. If it is 'cuisine equipée' written in the ad, then it will definitely have a fridge and a stove and probably also a dishwasher. A washing machine in a flat is not so common and in some you are not even allowed to install your own, but have to use communal washing facilities ('buanderie').
What would I do without all of you!! I am so glad I found this site.
I am coming with my husband and our dog (she is about 45 pounds). We have decided to not bring any furniture, just clothing and essentials. I appreciate all of your suggestions and advice on renting (especially the info about appliances in the kitchen and washer/dryers....good to know!).
We have also decided it would be best for us (since we've never moved abroad like this) to use a relocation agency. Are there any you would recommend in Geneva that are reputable? Also, do they usually help with air shipments (e.g. clothes, shoes, some books, etc...not a ton of stuff) or do I need to find another company for that?
All I keep thinking about is getting there. We are SO excited to start a new chapter in Geneva!!!!
Thank you Grant. We decided not to ship any furniture. Just need to ship things that we can't fit on the plane with us (eg. excess). Stuff like our clothes, shoes, linens, and some books, etc.
Can you recommend a shipping and/or relocation company in Geneva?
Just for my fellow EF folks, no the international organizations do not help with relocation, except to provide a settlement stipend. So the OP needs to find her own resources to spend the money on.
The last time we moved we used Micheloud et Cie. they were really helpful. The real benefit of using a firm like this is that they do all of the talking and the filling in of the forms, and they know what the regies and the property owners are looking for. As I've said before though, I think any native attorney could probably do the same thing, and the hourly rate might come out cheaper.
I totally forgot to mention the International Welcome Center . They're on Route de Ferney across from the Hotel Intercontinental. They have several relocation services. We didn't use them but perhaps we should have.
This is actually not true. It does depend on the type of contract, but if you are hired on a regular contract, the United Nations helps with relocation. The organisation pays for your moving expenses (shipping of personal effects up to a certain limit) and provide you with a relocation allowance (equal to a certain number of daily subsistence allowances for designated duty station).
Then I don't know what 'no help with relocation' means. I thought that what MarkJ called a 'settlement stipend' referred to the DSA portion only, when actually the organisation pays the relocation company in addition to giving you the relocation allowance.
Shorrick Mk2 is correct. I meant that while some international hires for the IOs are provided with money for resettlement they don't get any help with the tasks of resettlement, like finding an apartment or a shipping company.
I guess there is one other exception: the UN and its sister agencies will arrange a Carte de légitimation with the federal authorities, which means that we don't have to worry about residency permits. Unless we care about eventual naturalization, in which case we get no help at all.
UN and sister agency staff who choose to live in France must also work out arrangements with the French authorities on their own, so no help there.
Sorry if I was less than perfectly precise in my wording. On the other hand maybe this discussion is a pretty good example of how important precise wording is to many of our colleagues at the international agencies.
Well, I can't claim that I know what all international organisations are doing, but the UN definitely does find and pay a moving company. It is true, though, that there is no formal mechanism to help with other relocation matters (especially finding appartments in Geneva), but there is an office of staff counsellor that can answer many questions and offer some practical help on a range of issues, from spouse employment to living in France.
I think that it would be highly unusual if the UN actually helped its staff with naturalisation when it is urged by its Member States to promote diversity through geographical representation and has a system of educational and home leave allowances designed to maintain staff members' ties with their home countries.
Precise wording, hm, you are right MarkJ, where I work there are endless arguments over commas