Hello.
We had an expensive kitchen built into our new house. It was made from scratch and incorporated a side by side fridge freezer. The fridge freezer is surrounded by kitchen units to either side and one above (though the one above is not deep and has a 20 cm gap behind it to the wall with the idea of allowing air from fridge to circulate up .. The kitchen designer specified the clearance around the fridge freezer - basically 5cm above and behind it and 2.5cm to each side.
The fridge freezer has been very unreliable and needed to be repaired often. Siemens claimed when they came out that it broke down a lot because there was not enough clearance around it - they said it needed 10cm above behind and to each side. The kitchen design shop said this was nonsense and that we had a Friday afternoon/Monday morning fridge.
Before I go out and replace the fridge freezer for another one the same size (alas this means buying Siemens or Bosch as this is the size of the hole) can any of you shed any light on the clearance for a fridge freezer ... I have looked it up and various different sites say different things but even Siemens does not say 10 cm in every direction.
Important that cold air can come in at the bottom, get behind, and out at the top. The sides should not be that important (apart that it should not be next to the oven, which is often overlooked).
If this is not given it will overheat.
If Siemens specifies something else than given in the mounting instruction (Like https://media3.bsh-group.com/Documen…/GI41NACE0.pdf ) then they have to really explain themselves.
Is the air flow channel at the bottom blocked due to bad kitchen design or something else such as pet hair?
Our BSH group side-by-side has ventilation holes cut in the plinth below the door. Does yours and/or should it?
(Don't ask your kitchen builder - they may have got it wrong. Do your own checking).
The previous owner of our place had multiple pets. Shortly after we moved in, one of the circuit boards died. Overheating due to air flow constriction caused by pet hair was the problem. We vacuum this area regularly now but that means removing the plinth.
Good point.
This motivated me to check our ventilation, I could take the grid off and clean it properly and the vacuum extension piece just fitted so I could vacuum it.
Its not built in so there is no plinth. It literally is just rolled into a hole in the wall of cupboards so like a built in it does have cupboards around it but is more open than a built in ... I just don’t want to buy a direct replacement if the reason the last one failed was lack of ventilation and Siemens and the kitchen designers are both sticking to their stories - Siemens say there is not enough clearance all around it (while nowhere can I find what they actually advise) and the kitchen showroom designers saying they design them like that all the time and its a bad fridge not lack of ventilation
The point about the motor and fan being clear of fluff and dust is however a good one - but because this broke down literally within a year of being delivered I was told about keeping it clean and have been quite careful ...
Thank you - as its not built in (just pushed into a hole in the wall cupboards it stands on its own feet with no plinth so one would assume it has enough space under to draw in air. Behind it is a good 10cm from the wall and the cupboard above it at least 5 cm clearance but most importantly the cupboard above does not cover the whole surface of the fridge - there is about 20cm gap between back of the cupboard above it and the wall of the kitchen to let air up rise behind the cupboard above and up towards the ceiling
The designer says it is ample clearance and often they fit them with less so overheating is not the issue - but Siemens say its overheating that has made the fridge so unreliable - makes it hard to know who is telling the truth as they would both say that wouldn’t they?
What has actually failed on it and is it the same part every time?
First it was the icemaker - just broke - in guarantee so replaced but then broke a year later out of guarantee. Then it was the water dispenser (it kept freezing up - choice between -18 degrees and frozen water dispenser or -14 and not frozen) then large lumps of ice appeared at the back by fan and condenser - Siemens say its overworking so raise temp of fridge and freezer even more, then it leaked (water not draining out because guess what - drainage was frozen - raise fridge and freezer temp again they said!) then finally needs more gas but as you can no longer add gas, it needs replacing.
Eek I thought. Do I really want to do a direct replacement - and this is where siemens said well not with that cupboard clearance and designer replied they don’t know what they’re talking about.
I just want a fridge that works ...
Apart from the icemaker, it looks like all the other problems could be related and have something to do with temperature control. It could be a fault on the PCB.
Repair people sometimes only deal with the symptoms and not the fault and are basically trained to learn which parts to swap out.
The symptoms you describe are those of a compressor that does not have enough freon but that's not the same as saying that there isn't enough freon as other faults could produce the same symptoms.
If you get a replacement Siemens appliance, chances are is that it will be fine.
Sounds like Siemens are pulling your willy.
Time to get the artillery out...........
Ask them for exact published instructions for installation of this particular model to start with.
Did you contact the people who made your kitchen? They should bear some responsibility- unless you insisted on having the fridge-freezer built in, against their advice.
When we bought ours, we were told it could not be built in, and had a minimum clearance on both sides, back and top, to allow air to circulate properly. The guy who delivered it told us again, and did the measurements to ensure guarantee would be valid.
A part replaced under warranty has its own, newly started, warranty.
Since 2013 the warranty must be for at least two years for new stuff sold to an end consumer (an additional two years for replaced parts from the date of replacement).
ETA:
As for the ventilation: Perhaps a stupid question but is the 20cm gap behind the topmost unit open so that the warm air from below can flow elsewhere and escape? Or is it a pocket, a dead end?
Well it goes to the space between the top of the row of cupboards and the ceiling - so fairly open - there is about 40cm between the top of the cupboards and the ceiling so I would have thought the nice big gap for the warm air to rise up to this space which is essentially open to the whole big room would be enough ....
Thank you for the note re the extension of guarantee on replaced parts - this argument has been pulled out to me more times than I care to mention in connection with snagging problems in our new build ...
For what its worth for various technical reasons I know for a fact this is not what they are doing ....
Honestly I’m just fed up of it. My reason for the post is just to see if there is any knowledge about typical clearance before I go out and buy another one. The arguing is worse than dealing with my class of 5 year olds at work (actually that is mean to the 5 yr olds who for the most part are way better behaved than this)
Siemens should put in the fridge documentation (user manual or installation manual) how much clearance is needed or how to ensure proper ventilation.
If they put something and they now say on the phone it has to be more (and they need to say how much exactly), it's on them.
The kitchen planners have to respect the documentation, and not build what "always worked". Always worked doesn't mean they're not increasing the failure rate or doing some other similar disservice. If they didn't respect the specification, it's their fault.
Beyond that, I've heard bad things about these hyperaccessorized fridges before. Maybe replacing with a simpler design could be an option to reduce headaches.
Clearance top, back and sides- but in an enclosed unit, may not be sufficient for air circulation. This is what fitters told us- it could not be enclosed, as such.
Not being obtuse but what is a hyper accessorised fridge? I went looking at different models and could not believe all the bells and whistles. Ours is very simple in comparison ..
In the installation manual it does not show actual measurements for clearance around the fridge but only measurements to allow you to plan adequate clearance for the doors to open fully! In text in the manual, it says use the spacers at the back to keep it away from the wall (ours has been at least 4 times further forward than if we had used the spacers - ie spacers are 2.5cm and our back is a good 10cm away from wall), it makes no mention of sides and only says that it needs 2.5 cm above or if it has a «blende» above it (plank?? Not sure how to precisely translate this) 5cm - again ours is about 6cm but the back 20cm has nothing above it as the top cupboard is not deep - on purpose and its open to the ceiling.
This is not 10cm every which way .. which is what two Siemens repair men have told me!
Yes - this is why our cupboard above is not the same depth as the surrounding cupboards - its about 20cm short allowing a large space at the back going straight up to the ceiling.
Given the discussion on this thread I think the kitchen designer is not lying - it seems we have a lot of clearance and at least as much as the minimal suggestions in installation manual (see above comment - the suggestions are not very clear). Short of Siemens saying «this fridge must stand alone - it cannot be placed with cupboards around it» (which it does not - the installation notice gives really clear guidance as to how far the doors swing and how much neighbouring drawers/cupboards may be compromised from opening if fridge doors are open) I think the Siemens engineers are just trying to deflect from how poor the product has been. Which begs the question ... why would ai buy another? Oh yep, they all have different measurements and siemens/bosch is the only one that fits the hole
Hi ECB, I don't think your fridge is running to warm. The problem with the ice-maker comes perhaps from your very hard Jura water, in foodcenters this happens. A problem which you could have, is your underfloor heating is very strong under the fridge. I have had this where there was a lot of heating pipes under the fittings. The space around the fridge that you have is more than normal. ECB there are other food-centers which will pass very well in your space. The Samsung RS 67A8811S9/ws is a good example (But take only the one with 2 cooling-systems)
as mentioned already, you need sufficient clearance to allow air to be drawn in and convect upwards and escape. let's assume that you have that. i have one kitchen which doesn't quite have enough and the built-in fridge/freezer dies every 5 years or so from the pump having to work too hard. for a rental property, replacing the fridge every 5 years is an acceptable cost and less hassle than trying to retro-engineer adequate ventilation.
the 2nd problem is that these side by side fridges are notoriously unreliable. i don't know anyone who has one that is problem-free. my parents have one that is free-standing so has no ventilation issues and they have to do some kind of reset every year where they defrost and clean everything to get the freezer working.
check also that there's no underfloor heating that causes problems (or hot appliances e.g. ovens) next to it.
