I just got something in the mail that is dated for June 2013. We went on holidays and apparently didn't pay some 5 EUR road tax at the lake Como and now the creditor company wants 12 EUR from us. The whole amount is ridiculous, but:
- why wait 16 months? obviously I don't keep receipts that long.
- I can't really explain how we could jump the road tax as there are booths on every possible highway sections in Italy. if it's not pulling a ticket, then you gotta pay on the spot
- why go after 5 euros, and sell it off to a creditor company, really? I wouldn't think it's worth the money at all (hence, I might think they might just try their luck with this to send it to all foreigners who once passed by)?
- anyone heard of NiviCredit in Florence as a creditor company?
Nivi is heavily involved in collection of fines originating in European cities from tourists, usually foreign ones that the municipalities would normally write off because of the collection costs. They do these with bulk mailings, hence the investment and effort to collect 12 EUR from you. If they send out enough letters, enough people will fess up and pay for them to make a net profit.
I am not sure that they have any jurisdiction to enforce collection if you just refuse to pay. Additionally, if the letter was not sent to you registered mail, then they have no certainty that you even got the letter.
I am guessing they buy old "uncollectable"s from agencies for pennies on the dollar.
I did some googling in the meantime and found out the following things:
- Nivi Credit has indeed almost always the same pattern (notification after years, petty amounts), most people mention that they are just trying their luck
- in Italy even if you can't pay for technical reasons, the barrier goes up and you get a receipt in Italian, explaining that you will get the check for this at a later time. In this case, the amount is legal and should be paid. Obviously noone has the receipts years after the incident, and most of us will not read the italian comments
What bugs me though is the following:
- mail came in a snail mail directly to my mailbox
- they send you a letter with a personal username and password
- and you can pay online with a credit card
- my plate details are searchable on the internet, so it's a no-brainer to find my address
Seems like most of the phishing emails, just this one came in snail mail. Even checking into this account could justify that I have received the letter, where they could eventually bombard me with anything else on top, so I won't do it. In no circumstances was I going to pay by giving my Credit Card details
the most important fact is, Police can't stop you you are driving around Italy next time, as these fines are civil debts and not braking the law (I guess you understand what I mean even though the correct legal terms escape me now).
second fact is, only the "skipped" amount is due, they have no right to any extras due to legal costs, etc.
I wouldn't pay them or give them any of your information. If you are really concerned, next time you cross the border to Italy, stop at the Italian customs/immigration (or any Italian polizia), show them and explain and offer to pay it. Get a receipt and keep receipt and bill with you when driving. Doubtful anyone stopping you in Italy will have a problem, but for evidence if some credit thing happens, you have receipts. Most likely the Italians will laugh at it and say no big deal but will give you a receipt.
we got a fine in Italy, all the barriers where up on all booths, people where zooming through at warp speed (normal itallian speed) so we had to go through, got to the next booth, explained what happened, and they fined us!! gave us a ticket with all the car details on etc etc
Never paid it, never heard another thing, although we did sell the car shortly after.
I'm sure I read somewhere once that Italian road fines have to be presented to the offender within a certain time period (I think it was 6 months) of else they become invalid.
got another message from yet another creditor company. this time it's 68 francs. still nothing in registered mail. I'm gonna ask my law insurance what they think about it.
I got flashed in Milan a month ago in a 50 km/h area ... I was driving between 55 and 60. Should I expect a fine in two years or so for some undetermined amount of money?
Exactly- we had the same for a section of MWay in Italy when automatic booth was out of order for cardpayments. 4 years and 10 months later (5 years is max). They get an agency to chase unpaid tolls. Just not worth not paying imho, so we did- after checking that it was legit.
i have a kind of similar situation. recently, a company named schuldtitel-online ag from switzerland has sent me a bill that mentions some italian motorway toll fee of 2.92 CHF from 11.05.2012, but charging me a total of 60.09 CHF. the bill lists
- fee: 2.92 CHF
- nivicredit processing fee: 8.11 CHF
- legal services fees: 49 CHF
i do not how i could have avoided paying such a fee on the spot, but it is even more ridiculous to demand 20 times the amount five years later without informing me about the original fee for five years.
it looks like nivicredit thinks they did not manage to collect the amount for five years, and passed it to a switzerland-based company, which seems to be very eager.
i tried to contact nivicredit, but did not hear back from them. i sent an email to schuldtitel-online now, and let's see how they will reply.
does anyone have any advice about how to pay the original amount and be done with this?
ps: if the only advice you have is "just pay the whole amount and forget it", please do not deliver it ;-)
I'm just done with this process. Asking anything else than the original amount is illegal in Switzerland. If you speak German, Google for Verzugschaden and you will find a sample letter.
Once I sent that letter to the Swiss company I got the amount corrected to the original Italian amount. Happy to help in PM if you need.