Strange Behaviour in RAV Office

Complaints Corner
41
Yes, she was. Why did you go the RAV in the first place?

42
Am i wrong.... or is the RAV office not exactly your typical employment agency? As far as i understood it your job placement (given that if you go to this office you admit by default that you cannot employment elsewhere) is determined by what is available and not qualifications per se .

In addition your job placement through the RAV is dependent on your german proficiency. Krati i really think your are blowing this out of proportion. Given that the RAV is an unemployment office and not an employment agency, you should not have gone there in the first place if you thought you could find employment on your own.

In addition, if your degree/s are not swiss then expect that you would need to ratify them with the swiss if you deal with the RAV (even if you hold an MBA from say the London school of economics). This principle holds true for any developed country you would go to (provided you have not been head hunted by a large multinational that would involve re-location).

Don't let this sour your opinion on such places in CH. Yes there are numerous administrative headaches living here, but your experience appears to have happened due to your unrealistic expectations of the RAv.

43
Hi, in answer to your first point not exactly. The RAV has a multi-faceted roll and is a part of the public infrstructure so you might need to go there to claim benefits and other support. For example if you want to work self-employed you can go to the RAV for advice and help. I think, but don't know, that the mistake that Krati made was thinking the RAV would help with German courses having perhaps read elsewhere that they do. Well the RAV will but only under certain conditions, such as that you are registered with them and that this will help with integration into the employment market.

To your second point not at all - German language skills are an irrelevance to the RAV although many of the jobs posted there have German as a requirement, the RAV cannot hold this as a requirement for help - by the way your second paragraph contradicts your first but I know what you mean reading between the lines and you may well be correct.

With respect from degrees, this is no longer the case. IF(big) Kratis degrees are from a recognised EU education establishment then they can be used here and furthermore if the qualifications are in restricted professions then they may under inspection be used, here I mean things like MD, Lawyer, Midwife...

44
Well, I have a degree from a US university and I didn't have to do anything special to it to get a job in my field here.

So maybe it is a company policy thing, not a law thing, with regards to what degrees they recognize and which ones they don't?

45
No actually it is not. I am sure you are aware that to use a title you are not permitted is an offence. ie to call yourself Professor Smith when you are only John Smith MSc is illegal. In Switzerland titles used to be and in some areas still are important. If you flick through the phone book you will see plenty of people advertising the fact they are "officially" qualified with titles such as Dip. Ing, Chemiker HTL, etc. These also appear on business cards and the like. These titles are not to be used unless they are formally recognized. In particular lic titles are highly regarded.

If these titles are from the EU then you are permitted to use them here as they are given or as they are recognized by Switzerland. So for example an LLB will be given a title lic. iur.

46
Richard, is this more for technical degrees? Are PhDs in the sciences recognized across the EU regardless of where you obtained them from?

47
No it is for all degrees but don't worry if they are from the EU then they are automatically quid pro quo recognized. The only problem is if they have a different title in Switzerland to the EU. In that case they need to be translated. A PhD from a recognized university is a PhD worldwide. Note here you automatically receive the Dr. title in your passport which makes it furthermore official.

48
Richard.... did you want to goad me into this one .

Academic qualifications such as an MSc. or PhD are unfortunately not automatically recognised, but only if one chooses to work in academe in CH. All degrees be they EU or not need to be closely examined by the University faculty before they declare it Swiss equivalent or request you to take a competency exam prior to declaring it equivalent.

All a bunch of bollocks though (excuse the language) as we have had to deal with stressed out foreign PhD students who are in their final semester and suddenly get a letter asking them to take an exam for equivalency (of their MSc.), despite the fact that they are officially registered as PhD candidates (with the Uni) for six semesters already and are nearly done with their PhD. Everything is internal and all the Uni requires is a report that the individual has met the requirements... needless to say no-one fails their equivalency exam under such ridiculous circumstances. Same is true for qualified PhD's who choose to work here though this is easier as the Supervisory Prof. submits that he is satisfied with the candidate and that's that.

This does however, not apply to PhD's who choose to work in the private sector in CH e.g. the big pharmas as no certification is requiredby Swiss authorities.

Just wanted to give a heads up to any students wanting to come over for post-grad studies here.

49

The one thing that seems to get forgotten here and I assume the OP didn't realise is that the RAV ( Regionale Arbeits Vermittlungsstelle) is a sort of sub office of the ARBEITSLOSENKASSE --> ALV and not a job agency as such.

If you have to claim anything monetary wise you claim it at the ALV,the RAV is first and foremost a so called Arbeitsvermittlungstelle.

And something else that seems important to know. If you claim unemployement money ( the dole) then the RAV will help you to find asap a new job ,after all this will help save the state some money.Now if you refuse to take on a work you are capable of doing, but it's below your degrees, you can be penalised by losing some dole money ( Streichung von Tagessätzen).

Furthermore,the RAV can make it compulsory for the applicant to go onto a language course to be easier placeable if the person refuses that, she/he can also be penalised with losing money!

In my very humble opinion, the person in the RAV office wanted to illustrate that in a, perhaps, poor way by choosing the wrong wording and reason of explanation, using her own experience in America..

Seeing that the OP was insistent of wanting a job in IT only, I think this was the case, that the RAV lady wanted to illustrate that you have to take a job that's below your qualifications and maybe has nothing to do with IT at all..

just my two rappen worth..............

50
Thanks for that. Interesting really. There are however certain professions where the official Swiss title is quid pro quo bestowed. What happens then? At the end of the day, if the course is in English law and you have an English qualified lawyer, are they going to ask that the degree/bar exams are retook in CH? After all after 3 years registered as an EU lawyer abroad you are bestowed with the official Swiss examination...

51
If you want to practice in Switzerland, you won't have to retake the bar nor the exam. However, for purposes of postgrade studies, the recognition is not covered by the free movement agreement (a bit silly, really, if you ask me). It is however covered by bilateral accords that Switzerland has signed with its four immediate neighbors.

52
No it is not, it is absolutely a job agency.

Its primary goal is to help people get back to work. The monthly visit to the RAV is not as important as filling in the forms for the Kasse. In other words turn up at the RAV every month and miss out one of those nice forms and you can forget your monthly entitlement!

Nearly right. If you have to claim anything monetary wise you claim it at the ALK - you pay ALV so that you can claim at the ALK. Now that is indeed correct and what does Arbeitsvermittlungstelle mean?

ALK is arbeitslosenkasse = Unemployment fund

ALV is Arbeitslosenversicherung = Unemployment insurance

Actually they will help anyone find a job and a few other things to boot. And it fortunately does not save the state any money as all the people who do work fund those that do not through the state insurance scheme. Only payments folling a bankruptcy cost the state money.

Careful, this is not strictly true although many RAV advisors will pressure you into a job, if this does not match your qualifications and you are on ALE, then you can refuse it as unsuitable. You must however, go to interviews you are offered and if the job is of a temporary nature ie for a week then you must accept it.

ALE is Arbeitslosenentschädigung = Dole or better said unemployment benefit!

All courses are non-compulsory until such times as the person is classed as long term unemployed (6 months) - that said if you agree to attend one and then do not, you will get precisely no money whatsoever until you start attending or produce a very good reason why you cannot. Ultimately the courses are paid by the Kasse and they are not too keen to give out courses willy nilly, hence they need to be applied for by the RAV person. It is possible to get courses more or less immediately, but sometimes it can feel like you are needing to get blood out of a stone to get them all dependent on your "friendly advisor"

53
All of which did make me wonder why the original poster was there, as it appears that having been here for 5 months, it is unlikely that she was trying to claim ALV. Assistance in getting back to work would therefore be the basic kind.

dave

54
Can one of the mods break this discussion concerning "Swiss recognition of overseas qualifications" into a new thread if one does not already exist ? Its an important topic, which will otherwise remain buried in an obscure whinge...

dave

55
An explanation of RAV's in English here .

56

This might be good in theory, but in practice, at least from my experience, they are not capable of handling/helping people who work in the international environment, particularly if the job seeker doesn't speak the local language(s)*. They are mostly focused on low-mid level jobs and very local jobs at that. They had no idea what to do to help me. They sent me on classes, chatted about life in Switzerland, travel & politics and admitted that they don't really have the insight on the international jobs**....

The OP will be better off shrugging her shoulders & heading off to find an IT job on her own.... which I have no doubt she will find. From what I've seen, the IT market in the international/English speaking companies is not so bad.

* but I do... just for the record!

** thus the advice to the OP to go work at the migros (although this was never proposed to me)

57
To be honest my dealings with them have been rather limited but I have seen them in action before. You are right about them having no clue with the international environment but they are rather good in Switzerland which is I believe where the OP was seeking employment.

I guess your experience is a valuable insight into their daily business, but your last paragraph sums it up. If you didn't get the service and you think you are worth it go somewhere else...

58
Well, I meant the international "job scene" (ie. international companies with English as the main language, i guess that might be better?) in Switzerland.... not looking for jobs outside of Switzerland.

59
Well, in my case, I had worked in Switzerland before but been out of the country for too long to draw benefits. Also, I would be paying taxes as soon as I found work, so yes, I am footing the bill now.

60
spare the time, the RAV will not remove her from her post because of your complains. the RAV knows exactly who they have hired, he posses the right profile for her job (think of this fiftysomething women slapping fines on cars, they are perfect for the task they do, lonesome, resented...ugly? i've never seen a babe writing fines, did you?).

she's probably a swiss jobless (as the majority of RAV "beraters") and she is there to fill forms and control other jobless people job seeking efforts, she's not there to help academic foreigners to find a job.

as many people know, the RAV is a racket which has other interests than helping people to find employment, the RAV is a mere statistics office which hardly helps anybody. a lot of business goes around the RAV, for example, they send you to useless assesment curses where your academic skills are examined by non graduates (nothing against them but i find it funny!). the language lessons are the holy grail of RAV, i don't know personally anybody who got one.

in any case i've never got a job from the RAV, you probably won't neither. keep in mind that you are on your own.