The poster raised 5 different points - which one do you want verified?
1. Foreigners must carry their residency permit with them at all times - yes, or face a 60 franc fine for not doing so. That said, I refuse to carry mine at all times, and will happily pay the 60 franc fine as the price for non-compliance.
2. You'll be arrested if you don't carry yours. Probably not. Unless you are being stopped on a random check and hauled off a bus to be dusted down for your papers in Kreis 5 (unlikely unless you are of darker complexion) this is not likely to happen. By describing your details to the officer, they can easily get on the radio and get someone to pull up an electronic copy of your permit, including photo. Therefore there is no need for the officer to go to all the trouble of handcuffing you and arresting you. Unless of course he doesn't like you in which case (it seems) you may get the "full treatment". I think readers should be able to work out for themselves that you don't need to be dragged to a station or strip searched to establish your identity.
3. Strip searching is a standard procedure to ensure everybody's safety. Well, in certain cases it could be. But if there is no reason to suspect a threat (like from a respectable old man) why would it be done? Surely if weapons are suspected padding someone down should be enough? And what if no weapons are suspected? Standard procedure? I think people can draw their own conclusions there.
4. Strip searching is standard procedure for anyone taken into custody. Well not in any country I've lived in, and I'm almost certain not the case in Switzerland. I am going to check that with the police, and I'll post again if I'm wrong on this point.
5. Strip searching is standard procedure in arrest cases all over the world. Well, I'm sure everyone knows that police forces in different countries behave differently, and use different amounts of force to get the job done. But I do think trying to extend the previous point to "world-wide" is a bit of a stretch.
in the times I've been stopped by the police, I've simply produced my drivers licence - and that confirms I am not Swiss. So I'd say for 99% of foreigners - no need to carry it with you.
However I have only been stopped for speeding, riding a bicycle through stauffacher and using a bus lane on my motorbike. Each time I was nice, honest, admitted my sin and I am sure the old Pullen motto "Behaviour Breeds Behaviour" worked in my favour.
After all, you annoy them and make their job hard and they will reciprocate accordingly
jordy, you are misinformed. Straight from the horse's mouth (PDF, page 53):
"The foreigner card must be shown to the authorities on demand. There is no obligation to carry the identification. It is sufficient if he can be shown to the authorities in a reasonable time*. If it can't be provided, the foreigner must be regarded as one without license until the contrary is proven."
*I don't know how long the reasonable time is. Perhaps it is up to the beforementioned three hours that police can hold a person for identity verification purposes.
Edit: I'm interested in the 60 Fr. fine mentioned by mark. Since my text quotes a federal court ruling (BGE) I suppose this could've occured until 1997 but not later, I hope?
i was stopped and searched only a few weeks ago, right outside my apartment - i'd only nipped to the shop to buy some groceries which is right across the road from where i live.
i didnt have ID on me and the coppers told me in no uncertain terms that i must carry some ID at all times when out and about.
i was extremely polite and courteous and also quite stoned! i had nothing on me and after the search they headed on their way.
hahahaha, If this is the same one i am thinking of, this was an IT Contractor that worked for Zurich Financial, Met him when i came here for my interview and he told me a story of how he was riding home, forgot his ticket and was arrested and left in a cell naked, Just warning me to be careful
Just noticed this my have been recent the guy im thinking of had it happen to him in 06 i think.
I recall we discussed this in a previous thread - and I have seen it listed in a big table of fines. If I get some time I'll try and dig it out again.
I don't know about anyone else, but I personally find it disturbing that one can be stopped and searched for no reason at all.
Well it wouldn't be the first time that the police aren't exactly well versed with the law.
May I ask if you are a person of colour? If not, was there any reason why you were stopped. Did you ask the police why they were searching you? (it would be a reasonable question, and I would be quite upset if it happened to me without good reason).
This incident happened last year, so it may be the one. However, I don't think it was correct that he was left naked in a cell, the story said he was strip searched, not left naked.
I have an update on some info. Rather that mouthing off unverified "facts", I called my friend in the Zurich Police and asked him whether or not it was normal to strip search for every arrest.
The answer is no - this is not normal, and it is not standard procedure for every arrest. Strip searches are only done when someone has to be put in a holding cell and there is an assessment of danger, like a weapon, or in the case of suspicion of drugs. However , it is not necessary to make someone completely strip in order to make sure that any harmful objects are removed, checking their pockets is usually enough.
An example might be for an arrest for drunk driving, they would not be assumed to be dangerous unless they got violent.
So there you are - straight from the horse's mouth so to speak.
Ah hehe, not 100% on the details but the story was he was left in the cell, may be someone bending the truth a bit. Was hilarious hearing about it thou
To add insult to injury he was arrested a few months later and had his 360 Spider impounded for speeding.
I can some more details on the strip-search story. I used to work with the guy, and he told me the story the next day. Some parts of the highlighted story isn't quite true.
The guy (i'll call him Peter), was in a rush to get to meet up with a friend, and left is ID and Travel card in his apartment. He jumped on the tram and was asked for his ticket. When he explained that he left it at home, they (rightly so) fined him. He did however have a 100CHF note in his wallet.
Peter being Peter refused to hand over the cash, as he needed it for his night out, they then pulled him off the tram and asked for ID - which he didn't have, they called the cops, and he was placed into the cell and caused a fair amount of trouble (verbal - as in "I'm British, you can't treat me like this") - needless to say this didn't go down to well with the cops, and they then told him to strip. He was actually left naked in the cell - however i'm pretty sure this was done to him due to his attitude and behaviour towards the police.
The guy is famous in our department, with other stories, such as having his car impounded after he overtook a car in a tunnel (paying a 2000CHF fine, having to stay to night in a nearby hotel after being told that he could pick up his car at 7am in the morning, only to find out that they didn't open up until 10am), and getting into the newspaper after "see'ing UFO's in sky.
sounds like he rivals a couple of lads I know - with tales of 118 in 50 zones in Zurich, doing a runner from an apartment left full of crap, nicking PCs from work, trashing rental cars when drunk by driving them along using crash barriers to steer.
All good fun - and bound to catch up with you in the end.
Ferrari-driving Brits who are IT contractors seem to be cop-magnets
I could dig deeper into stories of a US-registered Jeep with many plates which eventually got chained-up by the fuzz.....
Craggy - thanks for that story - it provided some nice entertainment.
Something is still missing though - you don't always have to pay cash for the fine, if you don't have the money they can bill you (though this costs extra). Though this is possible only if they can identify you. Since he had his wallet, he should have been able to indentify himself somehow. Quite how it went from there to a cell is still a mystery.
If you are still in touch with "Peter" you might want to tell him to come and look at this thread. It could provide us all with some more entertainment!
What would happen if the ticket inspectors saw that you had the money on you to pay for the fine, but you refused to hand over the money? Can you simply request for the bill to be sent to your apartment? Or would they demand the money there and then, since they saw you could pay?
(I recall him saying that there was an arguement between him and the inspectors regarding the 100CHF note).
As for the wallet, i maybe mistaken on that part (it was a while ago), i can't recall if he left his wallet at home as well, and the cash was in his pocket or not.
As for the part between the ticket inspectors and the police cell, i can guarentee 100% that his attitude would of accounted for alot of the reasons why he was treated as such. Very polite guy (i don't think i ever heard him utter a swear word once in all the days we worked together), but extremely stubborn and has an attitude which i would could only describe as being rather "frustrating".
I'm still in contact with him, so i'll definately mention this thread to him
Edit:
Just remember the last part of the story.
When Peter was released, the arresting officer opened the cell door and literaly threw his clothes at him and walked off. Peter got dressed and went to the front desk to make a complaint. The guy at the front desk asked for the officers name, which he gave and the guy made a comment under his breath, which Peter caught - which was basically "Not again". So he may of been unlucky and had a run in with a copper on a mission.
He also recieved a letter of apology from the President or Chairman of one of the political parties in Zurich a week or two later.
OK. You are right. They could have let me out and deny re-entry. I came back one and a half hour later and no one asked any question. I guess it all depends on the officer you deal with.
i was just coming out of the grocery store and as i was about to cross the road to walk the (quite literally) 10-15 meters to my apartment a police van drove past, the police must have seen me and thought i was ripe for picking on because they stopped their van in the middle of the road, 2 coppers jumped out and the driver then parked the van and then also joined us.
i think i was stopped because im overweight and have a beard and look a bit "different".
the only thing i was carrying was a shopping bag, no ID, but was able to prove my identity by giving my name, then showing the police the nametag on the outside of my apartment block and then they radio'd through my name and address to confirm who i was.
they then asked to enter my apartment building where they proceeded to give me a thorough search.
i smiled and was very respectful and courteous at all times, i didnt want to give them any excuse to give me more hassle.
in my view there was no legitimate reason to stop me, i was doing nothing wrong, clearly just doing a bit of shopping.
it felt demeaning, but well theres not a lot i could do about that.
Oscar, sorry to hear you feel so badly about your experience. unfortunatley these type of procedures are not pleasant. Wait your a white guy? hang on a minute here ........ doesnt the Swiss Police ONLY stop people of other colors??? Of course not ..... how foolish to think of such utter rubbish.
most likely in your case you probaly fitted a description of a burgular/robber/druggie/thief/violent person/missing person/illegal or whatever and due to certain escalation in events as you mentioned you had too endure this procedure.
Put it behind you buddy and dont think anything of it.
What would happen if the ticket inspectors saw that you had the money on you to pay for the fine, but you refused to hand over the money? Can you simply request for the bill to be sent to your apartment? Or would they demand the money there and then, since they saw you could pay?
(I recall him saying that there was an arguement between him and the inspectors regarding the 100CHF note).
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This happened to me once. I was in ZH for the day (first time) seeing the sites. There was a ticket control. My ticket had expired so obviously I was getting fined! As the luverly young man was writing up the ticket I tried to explain that it was a mistake and that I had money for a new ticket, (opened my wallet) he reached into it, grabbed a few twenties and wrote me a reciept . I objected, he ignored me.
I got off the tram headed staight fo the main SBB office, complained loud and long till I was refunded the money that was stolen from my wallet.... one of my few victories here in CH.
If i do get asked for ID and don't have my permit on me, will the arrest stay on record? I've gone out a number of times with out my permit (general forgetfulness) and i've even lost it once whilst out. The police in Switzerland scare the living **** out of me, and the last thing i want to do it be treated as a criminal by them.
Does carrying my passport give any weight in the ID situation? (I always have on me either my passport or permit when out and about, generally both - but on occasions sometimes just the one).
Actually - forget that post / question, having a brain-fart.
Didn't fully read all of the thread, and it's also impossible to carry your permit around with you all the time, considering when you renew, they take your existing one and you have to wait 6'ish weeks before they issue you your new one.