may i ask why? just curious.
Ok, you dismiss my points as naive and opinion, but don't back that up with any facts. You obviously didn't read my subsequent posts, or you would have seen that I *did* ask my friend to clarify Stapo policy, and (to repeat myself, you are welcome to read the post I made on the subject above) confirmed that strip searches are not done for all arrests. I repeat again - strip searches are not done every time, all over the world. A close friend of mine was arrested in Australia and put into a holding cell (with other people), he was padded down, belt, shoelaces and personal possessions removed, but he was not strip searched.
You may have plenty of credentials, but you have made some pretty absolute statements (standard procedure, all over the world the same) which seem to contradicted by the facts. Is that opinion? I think not.
Is being left naked in a cell also standard? If so, why did the person we are talking get a letter of apology from a politician and why would it be making headlines?
So you are trying to say that Swiss (or Zurich) police do not make decisions on who to stop or how to treat them based on colour? A lot of people seem to think otherwise, but maybe they are also naive. I could trawl through the forum for the many reports of this nature, but here's just one . Of course if this is utter rubbish then I must have imagined the times I've heard police officers in social situations coming out with openly racist statements.
Your point about him fitting the description of a suspect is a good point and probably the explanation in this case, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss the fact that white guys don't get stopped very often compared to black guys as utter rubbish. Many of us who have lived here and seen it with our own eyes know differently. But after all - that's just opinion.
Of course since you are a former law enforcement officer please don't think I am making comments about all police forces, quite the contrary. The comments I've made on this thread and other threads relate specifically to the Swiss or Zurich police, and the fact that there ARE things about their procedures which are different to those in other parts of the world.
I know I've said this before, but in my view the Swiss police are where the British police were in the 1970s in terms of canteen culture and a prevalence of racist attitudes.
That's not to say that many Swiss police officers are not professional and fair minded, however in my opinion it's not exactly going to harm your career if you do display racist attitudes and behaviours in the police.
Has anyone ever seen a non-white police officer in CH?
I will save everybody the raking thorugh of my 2 false arrests for shoplifting, one where a store detective frisked me and threatened to strip search, a physical attack while I was carrying a baby, the attackers were still shouting racist slurs while the police questioned everyone, etc. etc.
There are always those who will abusers a position of power and always those often in the same jobs who try to compensate for them,
even when, like the soldiers below, their attempts backfire
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6964564.stm - soldiers attempt at football gift
I'll guess that someone else has responded to this, but this is the only reason for which I am posting again. It had been so long that I had to reset my password.
In the UK, back when I started with German (I was doing an exchange year from the US), they all laughed at me for carrying my passport with me at all times. The question in German was where is your passport -- I said in my pocket. None of them could believe it. I guess it was because I had already begun visiting Switzerland regularly at that point. Today I still have my passport with me at all times. That doesn't even matter here, at all times, as I have been forced to travel for 2+ hours to retrieve my "Ausländerausweis" (Foreigner's ID Card / Visa). I now carry both with me at all times. In Switzerland you must always be able to present your passport and ID. My wife and I have both witnessed individuals of Indian descent (be they from India, the UK, or the US) harassed by police at train stations or at the airport in Zürich (I.D.s PLEASE -- very loud and very rude), where they were demanded reasons for their presence in Switzerland. It is just naive to presume you can go around without them. We're not in the Anglo-Saxon world people -- everyone has an ID card at all times here!
I have my ID with me at all times (well most of the time) not because I'm afraid of the police stopping me, just because it's in there with all my other cards. This includes Sbb half tax card, bank cards, insurance card (for prescriptions or hospital entry) vidio store card and last not least my guardian angel card.
I suppose once you've been in Switzerland for a longer period of time you don't give it much thought. As a matter of fact i find it useful, no problems if you want to spontaneously travel over a border, lose your ticket on the train (less hassle) and last but not least if you want to open a new bank account you don?t have to bring a handful of utility bills (as requested in England).
Then again maybe I'm just the teensiest weensiest bit Swissy
On a side note: One time I was in Italy -- the hotel took my passport. In the grocery store I was asked for an ID because I wanted to pay with my US (well the bank is now Canadian) credit card. The woman at the cash register gave me a look when I handed over my US diver's license. It luckily worked, although she did not seem to want to allow it.
I am so used to Americans (and Spaniards! Not Latin Americans, but people from Spain) handing me diver's licenses when I ask for an ID -- that will not normally cut it in Switzerland, but I'm American, hence I am used to it and accept it. Americans have their passports with them, but "ID" usually means driver's license. I don't understand why the Spanish do it...
In Switzerland this is not normal procedure, and you are normally expected to have a national ID card on you at all times (as Oldhand mentioned) -- which is why I commented about the Anglo-Saxon world before. We don't have national IDs, do we? I take it that he has been naturalized if he is no longer walking around with an Ausländerausweis / Alien ID Card. My Swiss wife always has her ID with her -- at all times. It is just a habit of the Swiss.
Maybe viewing Midnight express was part of the Zurich police induction training. Tough guys!
Maybe Switzerland could issue a permit card that was easy to carry. I don't carry my Auslanderausweiss because it is too big for my pockets.
They will. I was at the Kreisbüro last Friday and they told me they would be changing them out for ID cards over the next 2 coming years.
Just reading back through this thread as interested in what I should carry around with me, I have one point and a couple of questions:
Point:
I am certain that there is no (enforceable) law in the UK requiring you to have a certain amount of money with you at all times
Questions:
1) Several people mention their Swiss "ID" and say they carry it with their other cards. Is this different from your residency permit? Do "real" Swiss get a credit card sized ID card? The only Swiss ID I have is my B permit, and this is way too big to fit in my wallet, so I normally leave it at home.
2) Would something like a bank card be sufficient to prove who you were to the police if you were randomly stopped? How about a UK driving license (or a Swiss one which I will have to get eventually)?
Are they offering strip searches
Seems like he was in bad luck or didn't put on enough of a whine.
I have time and time again witnessed some guy being caught without a ticket, without money and without an ID and then get away with some heart-breaking whining poor German (which he was obviously faking) to the extent that they can't report him, he's illegal and he'll be deported and he has a wife and family to take care of. Normally he'll get away with a stern don't do it again.
I always though ticket inspectors must be incredibly gullible to fall for those stories. The above would contradict this.
To question 1. yes swiss nationals get credit card sized ID cards that slide right into their portmoneas along with all their bank cards. That's how you can tell they're real.
Fake swiss on the other hand, get issued with larger, uglier ID papers that require their very own wallet, specially designed to accomodate their strange dimensions.
To question 2. No. If you don't have swiss docs, best take your passport with you. Especially if you look like a Serbien drug dealer.
My colleage is Swiss, had a ticket, an ID, looks quite respectable, above 60 years old and speaks Swiss German was also brought to the police station, handcuffed and searched. He couldn't find his ticket immediately (he had it deep inside his bag) so the control said that he will just come back. His stop came, the control wasn't back, so he went out of the train. In a few minutes the police was on him.
Thanks I-b-deborah. I think I'd be doing very well to convince anyone I was Swiss even before having to show off my inconveniently-sized B permit, with my (currently) marginal French...
On the other hand I think I'd be pretty unlucky to be mistaken for a Serbian drug dealer , so fingers crossed I'll avoid the strip searches
That sounds like good news to me.
I think I've read on the first or 2nd page that there's no law about having an ID or money with y ou at all times but the police can ask you to produce it if there's a hint that you might do a crime.
I am a police officer in the Met (I'm moving to Zurich with my partner next month).
Some of the posters seem quite shocked at the fact that people are getting arrested, strip searched etc. The treatment of the man on the tram, without knowing the finer details could have happened in England too.
If someone commits an offence they can be arrested if one of the following applies:
I nvestigation - prompt and effective investigation necessary
D isappearance - fear the suspect may not be found at a later date
C hildren - to protect children
O bstruction - to prevent obstruction of a highway
P ublic decency - to maintain public decency
P revent harm - to others or to the suspect
L oss or damage - to protect property
A Address - unable to verify address
N ame - unable to verify name
That goes for ANY offence, from fare evasion to murder. It doesn't mean you would always be arrested but any arrest you do must be "necessary" by falling into at least one of the categories above. So the British man on the tram, if he was in England, could well be arrested in England as he wouldn't have been able to prove his name or address.
Once arrested and taken to custody, EVERYONE is searched before being left alone in a cell. You'd be shocked how many people do try and harm themselves. And if there is the slightest hint they may be concealing something that can't be found with a simple frisk (drugs, weapons) they will be strip searched, on the authority of the custody sergeant. I have seen lots of different things drop out of crevices when suspects do the standard squat. What makes me laugh is that people think police enjoy doing it. Quite the opposite...it is one of the most unpleasant and awkward things, to ask a grown man to strip and then inspect, albeit from a reasonable distance, nooks and crannies where only a baby's mother should be looking.
Maybe language barriers make dealings with Swiss police seem more unpleasant, but they don't sound overly harsh to me. Mind you, I may be back on here in a month moaning about all my terrible experiences with them.