Suggestions for Translation of Swiss-German to English

Language Corner
41
BTT.

OP, a simple translation won't do for the text to make sense to you and your country(wo)men. Instead you probably need a lot of context, a glossary if you will.

Now, your text was authored by one Hans Kläui. He died in 1992 but there's a club called " Friends of the Paul Kläui Library ", Paul was his brother. The club aims to keep local history history in people's memory, they may be able to help you.

42
Very true. I've found it necessary to explain certain words, etc. in the translating I've done, starting that glossary.

Wonderful idea! I will definitely try that!

43
Feel free to ask. The people from that club probably are in a much better position to answer, but it may a simple one that can be answered easily by laymen.

44
Yeah, here's an example, used several times in the chapter, concerning taxes and/or belongings:

3 Mütt Kernen1

1 Fasnachthuhn

1 Malter Haber1

2 Herbsthühner

6 Schilling Geld

30 Eier

With the following footnote:

1Winterthurer Maß: 1 Mütt glatte Frucht zu 4 Viertel -= 96,3 Liter; 1 Malter Haber zu 4 Mütt oder 16 Viertel = 444 Liter.

This usually translates to:

3 Mütt Kernen1 (sometimes mother cores)

1 Carnival Chickens

1 Malter Haber1

2 Fall Chickens

6 Schilling Money or Gold

30 Eggs

1Winterthur measure: 1 Mütt (or mother) of smooth fruit to 4 quarters = 96.3 liters; 1 Malter Haber to 4 or 16 quarters = 444 liters.

So, Mütt is apparently a Winterthur measure of volume, and Malter is as well. And I'm assuming Kernen here means (corn) kernals? Any idea what Haber means?

I've written them; haven't gotten an answer yet.

45
[quote]

Any idea what Haber means?

[quote]

I guess it is Hafer in more modern German, that is oats.

46
Yeah, I eventually found that. Haber is Oats in Old German. Kernen can be kernals, seed and grain (and more), so grain is as good as anything.

So, only 2 hours of research to translate a sentence or two.

47
Haber is still Swissgerman for oat

And if someone says: "Chum mer gönd go habere" the person suggests to go eat.

48
No luck in getting a response from those references. But it did prompt me to get back to it, and translate the chapter, which I've done. I'm happy with most of it, some is a little rough, but there are a couple of sentences that make absolutely no sense to me. Any help would be appreciated:

Including a bit of translated to English for reference:

He offered his inheritance, which he owned from the Hinwil office, to them for 4600 guilders and 20 thalers, whereupon the Small Council informed him «wan er lust habe ze handlen, mög er alharo kommen, do man mit imme gebürend tractieren werde» “If he wants to trade, he may come here, to be born maltreated “. And it was maltreated!

Any idea what “Tollenkessi” and “Käspli” are?

Daniel Rösli was even denounced to the feudal lords in June 1720 and he was reprimanded to the bailiff as a punishment because he had «frächer wys zwo Eichen, deren eine drey schu breit über dem Stockh, und auch ein forren abghauwen und theils dem Wagner zu Seen verkaufft und (die) forren alharo zu der Steinmülli (Steigmühle) geführt».

49
Tollenkessi: "Kessi" means "Kessel", a kettle or cauldron, size can be anything bigger than, say, one litre. Not sure what the "Tollen" part means.

«frächer wys zwo Eichen, deren eine drey schu breit über dem Stockh, und auch ein forren abghauwen und theils dem Wagner zu Seen verkaufft und (die) forren alharo zu der Steinmülli (Steigmühle) geführt»

He brazenly sold two oak trees, one of which was already on the chopping block, to the wagoner in Seen (a location, there's a locatioin called "Winterthur Seen" today). In addition he cut down a Scots pine and brought it to the Steigmühle (a certain mill, there's still a location by that name, "Winterthur Steigmühle").

50

Here (pdf) is a hint about it

"In house inventories, you regularly come across the "Seechtkessi", also known as "Tollenkessi". It (the cauldron/bucket) was inserted in the brick-built burn-hole/firehole in the kitchen called "Bränntolle". Three times a year, the housewife would boil the large laudry and the farmer would make his moonshine there."

We still use "Tolle" in Swiss German for the drains/sewer holes in the streets.

51
He chopped those oaks trees, one was was even three shoes wide measured over the roots (Wurzelstock.) A shoe is the same as a foot, and its length varies all over Europe, maybe even Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_(unit )

But 30 cm is a good estimate. So this rascal chopped down a roughly 200 year old oak tree

52
Change the keyboard setting to English US International

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...out-in-windows

Actually since June 29 2017 one can official use the ẞ which is the capital version of the ß. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_%E1%BA%9E

Correct

https://www.post.ch/en/business/a-z-...ents-correctly

https://www.deutschepost.de/de/b/bri...schriften.html

http://www.upu.int/en/activities/add...countries.html

Can you say which page it is on to get the full context? Like Page 75 for the above.

"when he feels like to negotiate, he may come down and he will be treated right and just". And they negotiated.

Tractieren/Traktieren (the same word, one is just the modern spelling) has different meanings. Maltreated is just one of them and actually a modern one. Originally it was just 'to treat someone', without a positive or negative connotation. Actually, treat and tractieren seem to be very closely related.

Just that tractieren also can mean to negotiate.

Erblehen is not inheritance, it is special kind of lease:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erbpacht

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emphyteusis

A good resource to find the definition of older words is the Deutsche Wörterbuch, a 108 year project started by the Brother Grimm.

http://woerterbuchnetz.de/cgi-bin/WB...i_py?sigle=DWB

Here an old Book where Käspli:

https://books.google.ch/books?id=QVJ...A4spli&f=false

This occurrence and other uses in old books suggest that it means Kasten which is either a Wardrobe, Cabinet, or Trunk.

53
I found the kettle part; best I'd come up with was "crazy kettle". :-)

Thanks so much! I know Seen; I've been there.

54
Thanks. Maybe here just Large Kettle.

Say, the PDF you referenced is very interesting, and I have a question on it, if I could:

On page 134 we have:

Wie Heinrich Heusser zu Tafleten vor 320 Jahren

sein Gut bewirtschaftete

Der Hof Tafleten umfasste im Jahre 1660

69 Jucharten Acker = 2484 a

24 Tagwen Wiese und Ried = 768 a

6 Jucharten Weide = 216 a

12 Vi Jucharten Wald = 500 a

Total 3968 a

Now, my research has agreed that Jucharten referred to the amount of land a brace of oxen could plow in a day, and is around 32-36 acres (above uses 36), although one source said 40,000-60,000 square feet. My book gives "123 Jucharten Acker unter dem Pflug, etwa 30 Mannwerk Wiesen". My problem is that the entire mountain area on which my ancestors lived was supposed to be 7.5 square km, which is 1,853 acres, and the above text would indicate 4,428 acres of plowed fields. I understand there's been apparently a lot of confusion about Jucharten, so wonder if this text didn't mean just 123 acres?

I've translated Acker as fields, Wiese as meadows, would those be correct? And would "Mannwerk" be handworked?

I see above, Tagwen seems to indicate a daily production rate as well, in this case 32 acres? Would Mannwerk be the same?

55
Fantastic, thanks! Not that he was a rascal, which I kind of knew, but that you've provided this great translation.

56
Actually, it's on page 75 as well, about 1/4 the way down.

I actually found that previously. Good resource.

Thank you.

57
This is great; I really appreciate it, guys. Maybe I'll try a couple other clarifications:

Schuppossen : I've read that to be small farm areas with sheds but no houses. I used the word farmlet. You have anything better?

Fasnachthühn : Carnival chicken. Although probably not the ones I find in Google images when searching for it. Was carnival a specific time of the year? Also, at one point, my ancestor paid a tax of 9 1/2 Fasnachthühnen. One-Half? Really? Would this be on a plate? ;-)

Saum Wein : Apparently they paid taxes in money, chickens, grain AND wine ("5o Mütt Kernen und 25 Saum Wein". Any idea what Saum means here? I read something about amount carried by a donkey, but...

Darn, this is going to be a pretty good read after all!

58
Just a guess, but "Saum Wein" could be "Schaumwein" -- sparkling wine. But then again, maybe not, as no units (bottles, cases, whatever) are mentioned, so I guess "Saum" is the unit.

Fasnacht (Carnival) is right about now in Basel and around this date across the region (including German parts of Switzerland, Alsace and Germany). The Winterthur Fasnacht is February 16-19 this year. The period varies each year; it's a religious observance, based on Easter, which of course is itself a movable feast. (The Basel Fasnacht, the largest and of course the best in Switzerland, starts at 4:00 am on the Monday following Ash Wednesday.)

ETA: Oh, here you go. Apparently "Saum" is a measure of wine for transportation . I'll let you translate the linked passage (use deepl.com for best results if your German needs supplementation), as the definition of a Saum varies widely depending which corner of Deutschschweiz you're looking in!

59
Wonder where a farmer would come up with champagne? Everything else, they had.

So, a Winter Chicken? Too early for Spring Chicken. And half a chicken?

Oh, and on the map on page 65:

Birch : birch trees?

Gatter : fenced area?

Riet : reeds or brush?

Im Hau : a building area?

Im Moos : mossy area?

Loo : ???

Breite : wide or width, but a description of land?

Roosen : roses??

Musental : possibly a place?

Aufhänke : possibly a place?

Häsental : possibly a place?

Steintobel : possibly a place?

60
Have a look at the late edit I made to my previous post.

For all the other questions, I suggest you try running your phrases through the excellent Historisches Lexikon der Schweiz , then running the answer through deepl.

Viel Glück!

Another late edit: words ending in "tal" are usually place names. "Tal" means valley. Not a lot of "tal"s around Basel. Lots of "wil"s, though.