Why, had you been standing on the plug hole?
It certainly isnāt uncommon, at least around here, for non-male toilet attendants to do their jobs, while I have been using the facilities. I ignore them, they ignore me, neither are uncomfortable.
I was going to leave this, but as two males have come in again to say that a female cleaning the menās changing areas, showers, or toilet area is no problem for them,I must say this isnāt what this thread was about. And that a (presumable male) swimming instructor thinks that an objection by elderly ladies to to the presence of (young) boys in the female changing area is,āsillyā and could be ignored, is, to my mind, out of line. The OP asks āWho else would have more experience?ā but I ask āexperience of what?ā
I agree with Curley on most points, but I do think the age of the ladies in question is relevant. A guy of more or less any age can grab a towel and be ādecently coveredā in a split second if he were to feel uncomfortable in the presence of the opposite sex. A young girl is usually quick and being flexible can change quickly and probably is less worried by anyone seeing her undressed anyway. An elderly lady is perhaps (probably) not quite as happy with her appearance, prefers to be ācovered upā to a greater extent, is neither as steady on her feet nor as flexible as she once was and simply takes much longer to dry herself, get dressed and feel comfortable again. Iāve seen many ladies slip into a bathrobe after swimming before going to shower and after showering put it on again to dry their hair under the uni-sex hairdryers.
Children are usually interested in things they see. Things they donāt usually see are especially interesting. Iāve spent half my adult life at swimming pools and been āstudiedā by young children often enough. Showering one day when the girls of a primary school class finished their lesson and joined me, I was obviously an object of interest. I merely pointed out that now they knew what their grandmother, or great grandmother looks like. Iām not implying that the lad referred to in this thread would be looking at the ladies, but I can well understand that they might feel uncomfortable in his presence.
OK, and I left this thread alone as I wasnāt enjoying the personal nature of the comments. I thought it a simple question, and I just wanted some advice.
The instructor is a Swiss female, around mid 30ās. Experience of swimming pools. You might think it out of line, but thatās what she said. I wasnāt convinced so foolishly I thought Iād ask the community what their experiences were.
I wonāt again.
I am not a woman but I can understand the discomfort some may have being in a changing room with a member of the opposite sex, even a young boy.
Anyway, personal nature of the comments aside (just ignore them, if you can), I think itās OK to take him to the ladies changing room if itās all very quick and ādiscreetā and donāt let him āpoke aroundā. I mean you wonāt make everyone happy for sure (those who even notice), but itās not the end of the world either. I think most women who have children would understand.
I know what Iāve just written here, as innocuous and kind-hearted as it may be, will come to bite me from behind, but that never stopped me to give my opinion to anyone whoās asked for it
The overwhelming majority of pool changing rooms Iāve been to have at least 2 or 3 individual cubicles for changing, if not all cubicles, so Iām sure in even the most cheaply kitted out pool facilities, the bashful can find refuge in a cubicle. Our local pool has 4 small communal changing areas for women and the same for men. Each of those communal areas has 2 cubicles with curtains in each corner.
Also, as a parent, itās a reasonable lesson in discretion. If a child is beginning to stare at people you just remind them that itās not polite and distract them with putting their socks on or folding up their towel or whatever. Given the number of adults that stare unashamedly goggle-eyed at people in any given situation here, it would seem this valuable lesson isnāt terribly widespread.
Sorry. I was wrong in assuming the instructor to be male. Nevertheless, I wonder if she will feel the same when she is my age.
these are the small cultural differences. Swiss people, in general, have less the anglo-saxon (and the USA is a nightmare) hang up around nudity. However staring at strangers is very common. I have learnt to look back passively. Most of the time they will simply look away unless they really have something to say.
Some women will be comfortable with a member of the opposite sex being in the womenās changing rooms and some bigots will not be.
I think you got your post the wrong way roundā¦
In particular the way they check out what you have put into your shopping trolly! My goodness do I feel judged for my four crates of beer, a roasted chicken and cat dirt.
I guess no one has asked about the urban environment.
Is it a small village in the central cantons or a mid-size city close to the borders where they see a foreigner every once a while?
If itās the small village, wellā¦itās just a small village. They have nothing better to do with their lives. Hell will freeze over before they change their ways. So, itās part of the package of nice property with lower costs.
So you should! Just so you know, at the supermarket, Iām also judging everybody on their choice of purchases
Why is someone a bigot just because they donāt feel comfortable naked in front of others???
Itās in Basel Land - indeed, we live in the middle of nowhere so have to travel to where the instructors are. All the kids Iāve heard her teaching before or after my son are ex-pats.
For some reason beyond the topic of this thread, people has very strong opinions about children.
For example, children should be toilet trained by 2.5 years old. 1 day later is failure of parents! If I say this in public probably someone will jump to grab my throat while shouting āNo, itās 2 years old and not a single day more, you dumbāā¦and itās a never ending battle.
Parents helping their children in swimming pools, ski,etc. itās just one another controversial milestone. Probably, the women complaining have a very strong opinion that children by age 6 should be independent enough to change for swimming pool without parentās help. Just a number as example, donāt crucify me for it.
The Swiss culture background is giving children lots of independence when compared to other societies around the world. But every child is different, every child grows at its own pace. It may take 3 months more for a child but that doesnāt stop the crazy ones who see hard deadlines all around, otherwise failure!!! Then, these adults wonder why their children donāt talk to them anymoreā¦go figure why.
Back to the topic, Iām sure your wife and you have an idea of when(age) your child should be independent enough in the swimming pool changing rooms. Since weāre foreigners, the Swiss estimate should be on the lower boundary of your own number.
Finally, villages VS city. In villages the people with strong opinions are are more frequently empowered, while in cities people with very strong opinions are more frequently marginalized. I donāt know how it happens, I just see it and live with it. I also live in a cheap rent place, and I have to accept some stuff Iām not happy with. I look at rent at more cosmopolitan places and the willing to move goes away
PS. Baselland has an influence of Rudolf Steiner schools in some parts. I donāt want a defamation lawsuit, so all I can say in the internet is they have non-mainstream ideas about education and children.
I donāt make the rules, I merely mock them
Interesting Axa, thanks for sharing.
For myself, I think my wife is being too careful. Itās her nature. I hear what youāre saying though, as an example, sending kids off to kindergarten on their own was something we found difficult, regardless of seeing the sense in it. But when in Rome⦠so with a deep breath, we did this, and were glad that we did. Once one gets used to this overall approach it becomes easier over time, and I would certainly catagorise our family as well integrated here now, but it took time and a shift in what we took for granted in what the norm (that we grew up with) was.
Being in a village (now) helps of course. Less traffic, fewer crowds and more open relationships with people here generally.
Regardless, as said, Iām ok with it at his age, my wife less so. Despite some posters attempting to pass us off as typical selfish foreigners, I wanted to hear what others thought from a Swiss point of view, learn and adopt to that.
So, the consensus appears to be split down the middle after all this.
As I mentioned at the start, he doesnāt look or comment on anyone else, so keen he is to get himself squared away and into the pool, and yes, the wife was using the private cubicle for changing. Not everyone does.
I am not interested in exploring the correctness or otherwise of my wifeās position, though I think many are keen to hitch their wagon of opinions to this question. It was simply a question to the more experienced among us.
Thanks to the positive posters, but I donāt think Iāll be asking anything again in a hurry.
I wave and say hello, I hate this passive-aggressive BS. Especially women chicken out quickly.
I thought so too!!