Sorry if this has already been discussed, this thread is long.
I often wonder how environmentally friendly EVs really are, after the production and shipping of batteries and disposal of batteries etc.
However, what I really often wonder, is; will there actually be a decent second hand market for EVs? Most people buy used cars to save some money. But when EV batteries don’t last forever and cost tens of thousands to replace, who’s going to want to buy one second hand and incur that cost? Are EVs going to end up going to the scrap yard much earlier than a combustion engine car??
I cant see the logic of the argument other than a perception problem. EVs are mechanically much simpler so they should last longer. The market is relatively new and the second hand market has suffered because the price of new EVs has fallen so dramatically. This together with the new EVs being better than the old ones means for those who bought in early, the depreciation will have been higher than for an ICE car. Battery renewal and/or recycling is in its infancy - size of individual cells, configuration etc etc. Lithium mining has a bad press, ironic given that it is replacing oil drilling, fracking…
First, air quality at the local scale. We don’t think much about it because the air is clean around here. Not so far from here there are cities with low emission zones that keep old cars out of city centers. Around the world, EVs have contributed to clean the air in cities. Yes, mining and recycling of minerals matter, but when people breathes air equivalent to 2nd hand smoke EVs certainly are an improvement.
Shipping has a low contribution to the overall emissions over the lifetime of a product. Also, cars are (allegedly) durable goods. Shipping emissions matter for disposable electronics and textiles from China. Batteries and cars are not the worst offenders.
Used car market. That’s a big question related to the “right to repair” question. Thisi is not a technology issue, it’s a legislation & regulation one. Manufacturers must make parts and service manuals available to anyone. In this regard, the EU is more or less well. Other places not so much. So, the very same car model may be more or less environmentally friendly depending on the possibility to be repaired in each country.
You’re only showing positives but have missed the negatives.
EVs have heavy batteries. EVs are generally big vehicles as this is what the typical EV buyer desires.
They have large, heavy tyres to support the weight.
In the EU:
Around 6.1 million metric tons of tyre dust end up in our atmosphere and waterways annually. Microplastic pollutants have become an omnipresent issue for the environment. ECOS takes a deeper dive into the issue of tyres on the EU level.
Where does the tyre dust come from? Every time a driver brakes, accelerates or turns a corner, car tyres wear down into small particles – polluting air, water and soil. Are these particles toxic? The typical tyre consists of about 19% natural rubber and 24% synthetic rubber, a plastic polymer. The rest is made up of metal and other chemical compounds. As the rubber wears, tyres throw off tiny plastic polymers that become airborne and pollute the air we breathe.
It is not only humans that suffer harmful effects from tyre wear particles. As demonstrated in laboratory tests and real life, microplastic pollution severely impacts marine creatures. Researchers were, for instance, able to establish a link between the death of salmon in urban rivers and high levels of chemicals used in tyres.
The typical EV buyer here has admitted that environmental considerations were a minor decision in buying an electric vehicle and they planned to sell it on before the environmental impact matched that of an ICE.
They bought for the cool factor, performance, and so on.
The high performance is another factor in increases tyre wear.
If EV buyers truly cared about the environment - they’d still buy EVs but they would buy smaller, lighter ones.
Personally, I think a better way of having clean air in cities is making more parts of them pedestrian/cycle only with limited access for vehicles.
Many cities in Europe and beyond are doing this.
One of the best sellers, the Tesla model 3 weighs between 1’600 to 1’800 kg depending on battery size. One of the benchmarks of performance 4 door cars, the current generation of the BMW M3 weighs 1’700 kg. I’d love to bash Tesla, but the numbers don’t help.
The new Renault 5 weighs 1’450 kg with the largest battery. An ICE competitor, the Peugeot 208 is around 1,250 kg.
Certainly, tire particulate matter is a distributed source of pollutants. Reducing car weight would help a lot. But, it’s a target for both ICEs and EVs, not only EVs.
I just looked at EV sales in Switzerland, the top 3 are the Tesla model Y, Renault R5, and Skoda Enyaq. Are they large and heavy “performance” vehicles? Maybe your neighbors drive Pork…errr, Porsche Macans (~2.4+ tons) but it’s not most of the sales.
The Renault R5 is a small little thing that fulfills the goals the Honda e failed. If I end moving to a new apartment where charging is available, I’d consider it the cute little thing more seriously for boring drives.
That’s in the last couple of months but it’s a good sign.
I haven’t seen a single Renault 5 EV on the road but thousands of Teslas and large German EVs.
I’d need to see sales by region to back that up as the French side of Switzerland has always been more French than German in most things including with owning smaller cars.
I live in the German part where yes, they mostly like their EVs big and German.
I’ll likely switch to an EV in the next year or two. So looking ahead:
I am looking for a compact car. Up until now most EVs I’ve seen here have been too wide for my parking space, but a couple of the Chinese cars that have been recently brought to Switzerland have caught my eye.
I am especially interested in the Jac E-30X. What do you know about the E-30x, or about Jac in general?
The Leapmotor T03 is sort of interesting - but I worry that it might be too underpowered even for me. I mostly bumble around local streets, but still need a car capable of highway speed.
Of the European compact EVs, the Citroën the E-C3 might be a possibility.
Any other compact ‘cheap and cheerful’ EVs you can recommend?
I get the impression from your post that you think the size of parking place is the limiting factor here but just perhaps you could appreciate that some people actually buy a smaller car because:
They don’t need a bigger car.
They have concerns about their environmental impact.
They don’t see a large car as a status symbol.
They have no ego to massage.
It’s cheaper to run and maintain.
etc
What Meloncollie requested, and what you assumed she requested are so far apart.
Small cars aren’t significantly cheaper to maintain than larger cars - a lot depends on how much work is needed and how much the company chargers for the hour…
Most newer cars are very wide. Especially EVs. I drove a VW Lupo for 22.5 years and now I drive a fat-ass 2022 Model 3. So I know my small cars.
And my parking spot is actually not that wide either, which I didn’t realize at first, too, while I had my small car…
The VW ID.3 (for example) is marginally less wide (but has a better turning cycle).
For a comparatively nimble car, the Fiat 500e is apparently pretty OK - if you get one that isn’t plagued by one of the many problems that plague Stellantis cars apparently…
I have a co-worker that uses one to commute from Schwyz zu Zurich a couple of days per week. So I guess it’s not too bad, given that he used to use a Porsche Cayenne for that.
There’s a couple of importers for these JAC cars - I have no idea how they hold up, who services them and how repairs work.
Bjørn Nyland hasn’t done a 1000km test on either a JAC car nor a Fiat 500.
But he has some range tests on the 500e.
I would go to a dealer and ask for a test-drive over a weekend. Then see if you can live with it.
Yeah, the small EVs.
But their range is pretty limited. If that is really enough “car” for you and you don’t need a 2nd car for “actually driving”, than it’s ok.
I thought you were planning to return to the US soon.
Good news if you are staying longer.
On the other hand, if you will not stay long and are looking for a cheap set of wheels, there is the Jayuan CHF 9,000, a two seater.
