The apartment we found has hookups for a washer and dryer. Since I am not familiar with European Brands, I want to do some research on what to buy.
Thanks!
What sites should I look at for reviews of washers, dryers and other European appliances?
if you want to go like a Swiss, a V-ZUG Adora.
what's more important: a A+++ and check delivery and installation costs.
And then there is that price tag.... How long until return on investment for that A+++ machine? That is a lot of electricity!!
Nice Machines, though.
Have you tried Tumblr?
Make sure the darn things don’t need wifi/mobile phone to run the programmes. Just got a new Candy Bianca which boasts over 700 programmes. Unfortunately only 6 wash/rinse/spin programmes can be run without using their mobile app - and I don’t have a mobile. Even pre-wash needs the app. But if you need to wash your diving suit or ski boots - there’s an app for that.
This can be a very long topic but I will try to touch on some of the key points.
To check pricing (of any ads you see, in-store visits etc.) you need to go to http://www.toppreise.ch/index.php . You can enter the model number and go directly to the page or you can search/filter as you wish.
Toppreise compares all of the on-line dealers in CH. Some of them are part of the large groups like Coop and Migros.
Items ordered from an on-line dealer will just be delivered (in front of the house/building) and not installed. At least with a washer/dryer they are not that heavy. A cheap dolly will do the trick (or a friend for a beer).
Normally if you any handy-man skills, installing a washer/dryer where there has already been one is not hard. I imagine that it would be stacked so you need two people to put the dryer on top. You will also want to get a vibration dampening rug (black rubber) from Coop Brico/Jumbo/Hornbach to put under the washer. Also make sure it is levelled.
The caveat about the dryer is that there are two systems in CH. One that vents outside (typical to USA) and a condensing style (more common here). The condenser goes into a recevoir in the machine (that needs to be emptied after each load) or ideally out into a drain/sink via the supplied plastic tube.
Stores like Media Markt (Meryin) and Conforama (Meryin) have lots of sales. Have a look at their websites. Fust (part of Coop) despite their "sales" will be one of the most expensive.
Next question would be the size. Most people will go for 7 or 8 kg. It will help for the resale afterwards. Most machines now sold will be A+ at a minimum up to A+++. Really depends on your budget.
Some of the better brands, without going overboard, will be Siemens/Bosch - same group, Zug - CH brand, AEG, Bauchnecht, Electrolux, LG, Samsung etc. Miele would be high end with no chance of getting more than 5-10% back on a sale.
Personally, I would (as I have in the past) order a better brand (I have Siemens) from an on-line dealer and do the install myself. You will save a lot of $$. Or go for a combo special at either Media Markt/Conforama and see how much delivery and installation would cost.
Our delivery from Conforama was included in the price, installation was another 120, but machine was going in the basement so no stairs/lifts to be dealth with.
Here is an inexpensive (Swiss standards) dolly (called diable in French) from Jumbo.
I have also included a photo of the vibration pad that I mentioned. You will see that it is made from heavy black rubber chips. This is very useful for your own comfort and if you have neighbours they will be very happy as well.
Dan, as you are coming from the US... just don't expect the big' ol behemoth top loading Maytag workhorse that will wash your entire bed set, blankets and all, in one load in 30 minutes.
Most machines here are front loaders, with a smaller capacity on average, ca 7-8kg.
Finding a 9+kg machine (which is still not big enough for my needs) carries a price premium. On the other hand, taking your big items to the cleaners carries even a higher price premium, so I bit the bullet and bought the larger machines.
Notics I said machines, plural. Most of the machines I've had lasted only 3-4 years before giving up the ghost. And these were brands rated highly. As the repairman, with whom I am now on per Du terms explained, most non-commercial household machines are only designed to wash 4 loads per week, more frequent washing drastically shortens the life expectancy of the machine. I often do 4 loads per day .
Admittedly I probably do more laundry than the average Swiss household. On the day of my funeral I'll probably still be trying to get one last load done...
When the last machine died on me, I looked into commercial machines... but those are eye-wateringly expensive, think 5 figures. The repair guy recommended a compromise, a 'semi professional' machine that is supposed to be more robust than the average household machine. This, too, carries a price premium, but one that wasn't as painful. I'm on year 3 now, and keeping my thumbs pressed.
This machine is 9kg, the largest I could find at the time. But that does not mean all loads can be 9kg. For instance the program for big items is limited to 3 kg. So I still cannot wash my matelasse bed covers, nor my duvets. These still require commercial washing. (At 85 Chuffs a pop. )
Just a heads-up, as you are delving into the world of Swiss/Euro washing machines.
(I miss my Maytag. )
So that heads-up aside, look into Miele, V-Zug, Bauknecht (which is Whirlpool, btw). Or the machine now on my wishlist for when the current one dies, Schulthess:
ETA:
It pays to compare prices and shop around. Yes, the big household appliance retail chain has better prices on the face of it, but I found that by going to a distributer tied to the brand I got an even better discount. So look into the smaller guys as well, and don't be shy about asking for a discount.
May depend on the machine. We put 4 anti-vibration pads under our new Candy and that seems to have caused it to vibrate excessively, so much so that it came off one of the pads and nearly off its plinth. Taken the pads away and quieter, less vibration and stays in one place.
Without seeing the setup, it is probably the plinth that transmitted the vibrations combined with the individual pads under the feet as on a tiled floor over concrete it should not move. As well, the rubber sheet that is shown in the photo is large enough for the four feet to be securely on the pad. But yes, at worst he has invested CHF 13.50 or so in the pad.
Well, still using the plinth and machine is fine. But I still think a pad such as you suggest is a good idea, especially if you’re in an apartment and may need to keep noise/vibration down.
Here’s some pics - after we pushed it back on the plinth a bit. It was sitting squarely on the plinth when it started, pads properly positioned and machine levelled by installer.
That is unusual. They seemed to have poured the plinth to have a level floor since my guess is that the laundry room floor is sloped to a drain. Since it is concrete it obviously was not moving (as some wooded ones will). If there was something off centred (e.g. a couple of towels) that caused the drum to vibrate more than usual, the individual pads under the four legs might not have been enough.
If the size of the machine is less than 60x60cm (at the feet), it might be worth trying the rubber pad (that is actually sold for this purpose) if noise is an issue. If you have it in the basement and it is not bothering you (and not moving off the plinth), I would just leave it. My suggestion to the OP was more in the context of him being in a building with neighbours downstairs.
Maybe 4 pads were too soft, and one pad would be optimal?
I would buy a second-hand Miele machine, my friend has one, run for at least 15 years without any service needed.
Nobody has mentioned that European machines are much cheaper, but are 60 cm wide, the Swiss standard is 55 cm wide!
You can buy 55 cm wide machines in Germany and have them delivered here.
Yeah, no plans to change anything now as the machine is working as it should and is pretty quiet. Don’t hear it upstairs and yes floor does slope a bit - the reason we got a new machine was because the old one started to leak and water ran across the floor to the drain.
Sbrinz, putting only one pad in place would then unlevel the machine and probably cause more vibration.
Don't be silly. People don't put washing machines in their kitchens here so the Swiss standard doesn't apply.
Are you thinking of dishwashers or ovens?
Have a look here: http://www.topten.ch/private/products/tumble_driers
I guess I'd say don't cheap out if you're planning on owning the washer and dryer for more than a couple of years. Basically, you get what you pay for. I'm using Meile machines and (W1 and T1) and they are great and super quite!
I know a few European Brands. One of the most famous is the french(?) Samuel Sung, I think it's shorten "samsung".
Or Miele, who is exclusively German, never seen abroad...
They even have special series per each European countries, French models can wash and remove bread crumbs stains. Italians models are washing using hands technology. Brits models are no longer in Europe, I will not talk about them. German models are using excessive heat to remove...ok might be a nasty/dirty comment, not suitable here . Greek models are cheap but always needs more money to run properly. Spanish models are expert in separation (white/colors, works especially well with vertical stripes yellow, red, burgundy, blue lines)...
Thanks for the detailed post.
We found a great garden apartment with a basement family room with the following side by side setup. I think we got lucky with this one. I can easily do it myself. Will the rental contract allow me, or will I be obligated to use professionals for installations.
Do you have any thoughts on condenser vs heat pump based dryers?