What's the difference between High German and Standard German?

Language Corner
21
I would simply say that Swiss German is a dialect of High German and this in a way is comparible with say Queens English and the Scots dialect

22
I agree with all the posts about learning HG. My wife speaks Basel "dialect" and she just tole me to learn HG first of all and alos pointed out that this is much more useful for work.

I will now attempt to speak to her family and friends in HG, they have alot of patience with me, and they often reply in English.

There is actually a simple book called "Hoi: A Swiss German Survival guide" that is really useful.

Hope that helps.

23
I disagree on both counts.

For example, a Swiss might say:

"dash toent guet" if they were speaking Swiss G

"Das Tönt gut" if they were speaking Schrift G (Written)

But a German would say:

"Das hört sicht gut an"

(Sounds good)

The difference is vocabulary & grammar..

errrrr

Some Germans here complain about the grammatical errors & incorrect use of vocab in the newspapers.

Kind of like asking an American to correct a Yorkshirites English...

However! ANY "German" is going to help you when you get here..

24
I disagree. Schriftdeutsch is standard German. "Das tönt gut" is not correct German in Switzerland nor Germany. That's just a poor Swiss who can't speak High German nor Standard German nor Schriftdeutsch.

25
This is the language martin Luther used when he translated the "bible" from Latin into German.Schriftdeutsch,Hochdeutsch, Standard Deutsch all the same. Deutsch to me.Schwitzerduetsch = Alemanisch sort of

26
I don't agree with that at all. When I studied German at University I was lucky to have a German professor that recognized "Swiss High German" and thus, allowed me to use all typical Swiss expressions.

If you read Swiss authors such as Dürrenmatt and Frisch it becomes very evident that there is in fact a "Swiss High German".

27
You are right, and Swiss High German isn't Standard German.

28
There are in real life more than one High German. There are at least two "colours" of German in Germany: north and south. Add Swiss High German to it. There used to be a Eastern High German in the GDR.

In every part of Germany, there is a local coloration to High German. Swiss people have a whole country to administer without language comments from the north, so regional flavouring is more likely to end up in a written text. Language columns from Spiegel (Zwiebelfisch) and Stuttgarter Zeitung (Skasa-Weiss) are interesting in that respect, as they comment regularly on that.

29
We all know that there is US-English, UK-English, AUS .....

Similarly, the Swiss use simpler words and constructs, in their written version, than the Germans.

Some examples: Lift (CH) but Aufzug/Fahrstuhl (DE) Tram (CH) but Strassenbahn (DE) Velo (CH) but Fahrrad (DE) Telefon (CH) but Fernsprecher (DE) Fax (CH) but Fernschreiber (DE)

30
It is most prevalent in "old", common words, like "carrot".

("Banana" is a "new" word - it is the same in English, German and even Finnish. Very seldom will you find a word that is the same in English and Finnish!)

Anyway: Carrot = Mohrrübe, Rübe, Möhre, Wurzel.. the list is probably longer.

31

Relax. It just is standard "Written German", which indeed often is a bit poor. But to say "not correct" is not correct, as "das tönt gut" IS correct. As the verb "tönen" of course is open to use in every possible way

32
Indeed. Lexic ist quite regional for rural and ancient life style.

In grammar too, there are some subtleties. Real Swiss High German is anrufen followed by Dativ also in written language. I've asked Swabian speakers about that, they say it's dativ in Dialect too but new generation follows Hochdeutsch Akkusativ.

I was in Dresden last year... I can't say I find Swiss German exotic anymore.

33
I think you are all over complicating the issue, its a German dialect!!! I am orginally from Newcastle upon Tyne where we have the Geordie dialect and yes the grammar is different compared to pure English and as Swiss German is with High German. In North East you can travel 12 miles to Sunderland and the dialect is different again. For me grammar changes with dialect. I also think Swiss German is easier to speak than German but would recommend to anyone to learn High German. My father is Swiss and Mother a Geordie put them both together and let me tell you Swiss German is easy!!!!!

34
Part of my degree was a paper in German linguistics, and one of the topics covered was "the linguistic situation in German-speaking Switzerland"...so here's some of the terminology I gleaned:

(German) Standard German: what foreigners learn in school, as described in the Duden grammar, dictionaries and so on.

Swiss Standard German: similar to German Standard German, but with some differences ('Helvetisms') such as different genders for some words, different word usage, words which are not used in German standard German etc. This is what is used in written and formal spoken communication (this is quite a crude distinction, but that's another debate...) in Switzerland. Likewise there is an Austrian Standard German.

Swiss German: The collection of dialects spoken and only rarely written (e.g. in text messages) in German-speaking Switzerland.

If you can speak German (of any standard variety...), this is quite an interesting read and written by real live linguists:

http://www.germanistik.unibe.ch/sieb...r_Wyler_97.pdf

In response to the OP, "High German" and "Standard German" mean the same thing: what I termed German Standard German above.

Hope that helps...

Jack

35
all excellent, except that "Swiss German" is very similar to the Mundarten (dialects) of Vorarlberg and parts of Tirol in Austria, parts of southwestern Bavaria, southern Baden-Württemberg, and the Alsace region in France, all speaking several variants of Allemannic German. And the local dialect of Frankfurt am Main is very close to "Swiss German". We in the company where I worked in the 1980ies for many years successfully sold the Schtuttgarterish of one of our colleagues as Swiss German. Only one customer got it and asked me one day "your Mr ... speaks an interesting S.G. dialect but it is neither Baslerisch nor Walliserisch, what is is really ?" and I told him "look this S.G. dialect also is known as "Stuttgarter Mundart" and so there was a moment of silence until laughters came through the phone. And then I told him all about it. And he complemented my colleague and mine on the idea to force Mr .... to use his home dialect. I spoke Swiss German at a petrol station far northwest of Strassburg, when I realized that speaking French was foreign in that place. When I am somewhere in the Alsace all of them speak French to me and when I reply in S.G. they conclude "oh he already learnt Alsacian sooo nicely" . Quite funny a situation !

36
But again, what the Swiss speak amongst themselves, is not "Swiss German" - it's definitely "Alemannic", an independant language (and not as it had been said earlier in this thread, a German dialect). Agree?

37
Nope

I do see where you're coming from - the term Swiss German being too closely tied to Germany and its standard language, and that it is so different as to sometimes be unintelligible to a native German speaker - but that usage of Alemannic is never found in the field of linguistics. It's used to describe a 'family' of dialects which have some common characteristics.

Calling something an independent language is a bit of a minefield, and it's always a good idea to remember the saying "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"... i.e. what people perceive as a 'language' is heavily influenced by social factors like national identity, politics etc etc.

Likewise, calling something a "dialect of x" is a tricky framework to work within, as linguistic variation is best thought of as a continuous phenomenon rather than a discrete one...the dividing line between what is one variety and another can be fairly arbitrary, and is further influenced by the need to not make things hideously overcomplicated and have 1,000,000 different varieties of what could just be called 'German', 'English', 'Martian' or whatever. Some (just don't ask me who) have even gone as far to suggest things like every individual having his own dialect (reading up on Chomsky's I language and E language might be of interest).

Ultimately i'd be tempted to settle for "everyone (including linguists) calls it Swiss German, so it is" .

38
Swiss German I like to speak,high German I have to speak Ok alemanisch then

39
A bit of history. Swiss German, as opposed to "High German" became important after 1933, and in the 1000 years of "Great Germany" not to be German was THE way to go. To speak "High German" with a Swiss sound for decades was important for all politicians. It only in the latest part of the outgoing 20th century normalized.

40
Interesting...thanks!