Your thoughts on Swiss Secondary School

Many schools are mediocre in the US. I am speaking on the technical side but honestly I am frequently not very impressed. Yes, graduates from Stanford, MIT, or Caltech are great but if you look at the Silicon Valley today, many entrepreneurs and top engineers come from places like IIT in India, Tokyo University in Japan, or Technion in Israel.

Regarding Swiss schools, the ETH is very well regarded as well as the University of St.Gallen in economy.

ETH was ranked #3 in Europe by Newsweek.

Yes we do. Swiss schools are remarkably well known for such a small country. In the technical field people in the US know the ETH and they know that Einstein was a graduate of that school.

When Mercedes and BMW setup assembly plants in the US, it is no secret that the management was quite underwhelmed with the people they found (and the quality was atrocious at the beginning).

All they found was high school dropouts and people with bogus AA degrees. They had to setup a strict apprenticeship program to train these people just like in Germany or Switzerland.

Show me a non-English speaking university that IS considered Ivy League. The problem is that universities are mainly perceived by the amount of research that is published. Research that is not published in English gets far less exposure than research that is. I acknowledge that English is a global language, but maybe by not looking further afield than that we are limiting ourselves.

But at the end of the day nations provide (or aim to provide) an education system that fulfils the needs of the nation. On the whole I would say that most Swiss are content with the education in Switzerland. Sure, it needs fine tuning here and there. Education is never finished, it can always be improved. But by and large, when Swiss kids finish school, they have a solid general education and they either go to university or they have learnt a trade.

ProsperityJoy obviously had very strong feelings about this subject and clear demands. That is the poster's right. But ProsperityJoy's demands may not be the demands of the majority and ProsperityJoy's perceptions may be only just that. It is a very subjective subject and, at the end of the day, each parent tries to make the most of the opportunities available to them for their own children. Yes, there must be opportunities for rocket scientists and Nobel prize winners, but bear in mind that these are the minority and it is still important (more important in my eyes) to provide an appropriate education to those who are average students (university material or otherwise). Switzerland, not being a particularly elitist country as we would probably all acknowldge, fulfils this requirement well in my eyes.

It would be interesting to find a statistic that shows the number of university graduates per capita from the US and from Switzerland.

Switzerland, in my experience, seems to have mainstream education up to university level far more accessible to more of the population here than perhaps the US.

You might not come out of Swiss universities with a gold plated degree from an Ivy League institution but at least you have a greater chance as Joe Bloggs to get as far as degree level.

Look..I don't care how many ways any of you try to" slice this cake"...It doesn't change the fact that Swiss Universities don't carry the clout that US Universities do in the world playing field and thats...that... By the way...Plumbers, garbage collectors, construction workers etc...make pretty decent livings in USA. I mean US has those too you know..LOL and it does not require a college degree (US also has trade schools)...and I've met a couple of impressive cooks too... What about now "the Swiss need foreigners to do the jobs the Swiss don't want to do seems like flipping burgers "ain't cuttin it any more", whats gonna happen to those young people in Switzerland who are considered not "smart enough" to enter university..It goes to say "once you are considered stupid in Switzerland theres little you can do about it..

You should re-phrase that: Swiss Universities don't hold the clout that US Universities do IN THE US. American Universities don't have the best reputation in European companies for the simple fact that 99.9% of the US colleges and Universities are sub-par and that the educational system in general is lacking massively in the US. And I'd also claim that in Europe, someone coming from Yale doesn't stand a better chance of getting hired than someone coming from the University of Zurich. Not to say that Yale's a bad school - but there's a huge difference between so called "Ivy League" schools and public European Universities: here, you have to have your muscle in your brains, there you need it in your wallet. Which, again, doesn't mean that all Ivy League graduates are stupid - some (deservedly) got in because they were smart and someone gave them a scholarship. But the mere fact that you can buy yourself through so called "top-notch" universities tells me that there's something fishy about the whole system.

Back up, at this point, would give some kind of justification to your post otherwise it's just your opinion, no?

Look don't write something and keep apologizing for it. You confirm my point on so many levels. You can "buy" your way thru Swiss Univ too...most don't do it because its not worth it..LOL

Not just my opinion but many others too...Harvard University is the number 1 university in the world...US has 13 universities in the top 20. Swiss University didn't even make it in the top 20..ETH Zurich came in, in the 20s'...Lets see USA has Stanford University, Univ California Berkley, Brown University, ..oh..nevermind need I go on, its getting boring.. By the way I have a niece who just completed her Masters...Her last two years were free as long as she did an apprentice program in her field...Not bad hey...

Ok, please describe how money will buy you a University degree in Switzerland. (Seriously, please do).

I have graduated from a Swiss University and can, without any doubt, say, that I believe it's utterly impossible to buy yourself through a public school here. You can perhaps buy a doctorate - I guess there it's easier because you only deal with 1 prof who might be corrupt. But an M.A. or M.Sc? Prove it.

On the other hand, it's a proven fact that a lump sum of money will get you into and through any American Ivy League University. Or if you don't personally have the cash, it also helps to be good at sports or be a member of an important family (the Bush family, for example).

No lets "flip the script" here...YOU PROVE IT...and its wonderful that people get a chance at higher education thru scholarships as long as they keep a certain grade average. So you are saying that "a person can buy a doctorate in Switzerland?"...LOL Why should they waste their money?

I just did - George W. Bush is an excellent example. Do you seriously think he'd be able to make it into (any) Swiss University?

Now please do elaborate. Anyway, to be honest - I'm not willing to continue this conversation on your level. Have a nice one.

As I started this thread and have read every post clearly, I would like to thank all who have answered my question and helped me feel clearer and a little more at ease over my sons' future.

I really only wanted advise on the secondary transition as my son will have only been in Primarschule for 2 years when he moves up.

I do feel so far that the Swiss school system has been overwhelmingly helpful to my children, where they have been given 4 lessons per week in Deutsch and integrated fully to their class from the start.

I found understanding the system difficult but after quite a few of your posts I am much more understanding of the schooling system now, as many of you will agree it is difficult at first not to compare to your own countries ways, but as they say "when in Rome" ok Switzerland!

I'm sure my son and daughter will get a fine education here. I'm just a concerned mum wanting the best.

Thanks again to those who actually stuck to the question, if I wanted to find out about Uni's in the US the thread would have been titled "Your thoughts of US Universities"

I think that is the difference - here you can only gain entry on merit.

Then again, if the US managed to give the Homer Simpson of global politics a university education, I'm impressed...

Uhm...Yes I do...The Swiss love money too! Plus he wouldn't want to go anyways...Why should he waste his money..LOL

You're right.

regards,

Peter

LOL...Have anymore examples...and who told you that lie that you can only get in Swiss universities by merit?...I bet Roger Federer children won't have a problem regardless if they are intelligent or not. But they wouldn't go to a university in Switzerland anyways...I forgot..my bad

I am sure you should (or will get used to) threads going a bit OT at times...LOL

I really agree with you on this. Since I have gone through similarly rigid system as it is here (early streaming, at 9yrs since we have a 8yr long Gymies, only 10% uni graduates in the population, free and pretty high quality education, incl unies) I agree that the parental involvement is the key, can curb the hard edges of the streaming, can back up the child's uniqueness and special skills and talents, can support the kid through tutoring and catching up. One just has to be confidently independent of the system and raise your kids with knowing that being different is not evil, might actually be good, no matter what society here feeds you. I have taught for ages in a rigidly streamed system as well, and eventhough it was not Swiss, I would say the kids who were disadvantaged weren't those who didn't make the cut but those who's parents didn't give a damn.

If kids and parents are determined they will make everything work, go around obstacles, find a better school, shop for a better teacher, even if it means driving kids to a different school or moving a canton that provides better care for the youngins..Just do not settle down with something that does not suit your child. It does require you doing your homework, though, and get educated on all possible options here.

I am a Gymi drop-out and then later on a Uni-drop out, who always found a way back to a different, better school, was pretty determined and self suported. I enjoyed searching for schools that suited me and uni programs that were tailored to what was important to me that now I am doing a PhD in edu sciences. It taught me being responsible, motivated and systematic. Bending the rules requires a lot of discipline, eventhough it looks the opposite. I did not do it for any school's system sake, for no teachers that told me I wasn't able, not for my educated folks (who spent majority of their parenting years pulling their hair out over me) just for myself. I think supporting your kids (but not against their will or they will run, like me ) together with leaving a big chunk of responsibility on them works well. Let them drop out and then find their way back, if neccessary. It is essential to have a stimulating, inspiring home and role models, too.

On another note, though, coming from a country of very few uni degrees..If one wants to move (and it is easy now with EU, etc), a child left only with apprenticeship and a high school degree might face hardship applying for jobs in countries that function on academic degrees. Providing a chance for uni then would be opening many otherwise inaccessible doors. A big plus here is how multilingual children end up but that is not all that counts abroad. That "stupid piece of paper" is still important in very many countries.

The elite buying their way through an education is true of the world over (and it doesn't stop there).. where do you think most of world's oh so clever politicians and top-notch judges come from.. the House of Lords have some of the UK finest nodding off on their chairs, drooling and mumbling probably at the young age of 50.. the rest of us need our university trained brains to continue to work so we can earn a living.

I agree with a lot of what Prosperity Joy has written because it all boils down to one simple thing for me *choice*

I really think this line about not everyone needs to go to Uni is complete bollox.. it doesn't matter whether everyone needs to go to Uni or not, it's up to the individual to make that decision not the government, one teacher or anyone on this forum

It's interesting that they do not have enough of places in Gymnis and when too many have qualified for a place they up the score and so only the very top get in or again the teacher decides.. I really think some very talented people in Switzerland don't the chances they deserve.. unless they take the very expensive route of part work and part Uni for years on end.